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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:17 pm 
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grandad wrote:
I know that I will get slated for this comment but I firmly believe that the jury were put under extreme pressure to return the unlawful killing verdict.



Money and pressure talk in situations like this. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:20 pm 
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ven2112 wrote:
heathcote wrote:
When was it reported broken,do not think that was stated at this inquest.


no idea if it was stated in the inquest, i remember seeing it read out on the news, also on youtube, although, what they did say was that the legit ticket holders were in the ground & were oblivious, the fans without tickets that came in caused the problem , quite a few without tickets apparently, also you must feel for the police mind, probably outnumbered 100/1, we all know the way football fans act , like animals,especially back in the day , so i think it was just panic on the polices behalf, like tt said, "called the dogs before ambulances" , obviously for protection in a very "hostile" situation, my opinion? yes the police handled it poorly ( should have just dispersed the crowd outside) , the flip side is why did the fans , with no reason at all to be there ( they didn't have tickets after all) rush to get in ? if they hadn't bothered going in the first place without a ticket, it would never have happened, if the police hadn't opened the gates it also would never have happened , but! they wouldn't have needed to open the gates if the travelling fans without tickets didn't bother going , why would you bother travelling to a game without a ticket ? ( i know people do , my mate does) cant understand it tbh , so, how are the fans without tickets not to blame? they caused it , anyway , just my 2 penneth :wink:



I remember watching the news, Liverpool fans were on there saying that they seen fans without tickets trying to get in. This was transmitted quite a few times but not once has it been broadcast during the inquest.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:21 pm 
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grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Where there are people wanting to go to any ticket only event ticket touts will always be in attendance knowing full well fans will pay anything to see their heroes.

This will never change no matter what any one tries to do.It is only human nature.

But we are told that this didn't happen at Hillsborough. There were no Liverpool fans at the game without a valid ticket. The fans were all queuing in an orderly manner without any pushing or shoving.
I know that I will get slated for this comment but I firmly believe that the jury were put under extreme pressure to return the unlawful killing verdict.


:wink: good post tbh


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:30 pm 
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grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Where there are people wanting to go to any ticket only event ticket touts will always be in attendance knowing full well fans will pay anything to see their heroes.

This will never change no matter what any one tries to do.It is only human nature.

But we are told that this didn't happen at Hillsborough. There were no Liverpool fans at the game without a valid ticket. The fans were all queuing in an orderly manner without any pushing or shoving.
I know that I will get slated for this comment but I firmly believe that the jury were put under extreme pressure to return the unlawful killing verdict.



IMO the police were dammed if they did and dammed if they didn't.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Where there are people wanting to go to any ticket only event ticket touts will always be in attendance knowing full well fans will pay anything to see their heroes.

This will never change no matter what any one tries to do.It is only human nature.

But we are told that this didn't happen at Hillsborough. There were no Liverpool fans at the game without a valid ticket. The fans were all queuing in an orderly manner without any pushing or shoving.
I know that I will get slated for this comment but I firmly believe that the jury were put under extreme pressure to return the unlawful killing verdict.



IMO the police were dammed if they did and dammed if they didn't.

That is exactly what I have been waiting for. Yes they made some mistakes, but there is no way that they made the mistakes with the intent to cause injury and death. Now the cover up and lies afterward is a different matter and needs addressing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:42 pm 
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ven2112 wrote:
grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Where there are people wanting to go to any ticket only event ticket touts will always be in attendance knowing full well fans will pay anything to see their heroes.

This will never change no matter what any one tries to do.It is only human nature.

But we are told that this didn't happen at Hillsborough. There were no Liverpool fans at the game without a valid ticket. The fans were all queuing in an orderly manner without any pushing or shoving.
I know that I will get slated for this comment but I firmly believe that the jury were put under extreme pressure to return the unlawful killing verdict.


:wink: good post tbh


cant remember the "justice for the Heysel 39 " campaign though , never there fault :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:34 pm 
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Quote:
That is exactly what I have been waiting for. Yes they made some mistakes, but there is no way that they made the mistakes with the intent to cause injury and death. Now the cover up and lies afterward is a different matter and needs addressing.

So you are saying that they were lawfully killed.....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:46 pm 
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Nidge2 wrote:
ven2112 wrote:
heathcote wrote:
When was it reported broken,do not think that was stated at this inquest.


no idea if it was stated in the inquest, i remember seeing it read out on the news, also on youtube, although, what they did say was that the legit ticket holders were in the ground & were oblivious, the fans without tickets that came in caused the problem , quite a few without tickets apparently, also you must feel for the police mind, probably outnumbered 100/1, we all know the way football fans act , like animals,especially back in the day , so i think it was just panic on the polices behalf, like tt said, "called the dogs before ambulances" , obviously for protection in a very "hostile" situation, my opinion? yes the police handled it poorly ( should have just dispersed the crowd outside) , the flip side is why did the fans , with no reason at all to be there ( they didn't have tickets after all) rush to get in ? if they hadn't bothered going in the first place without a ticket, it would never have happened, if the police hadn't opened the gates it also would never have happened , but! they wouldn't have needed to open the gates if the travelling fans without tickets didn't bother going , why would you bother travelling to a game without a ticket ? ( i know people do , my mate does) cant understand it tbh , so, how are the fans without tickets not to blame? they caused it , anyway , just my 2 penneth :wink:



I remember watching the news, Liverpool fans were on there saying that they seen fans without tickets trying to get in. This was transmitted quite a few times but not once has it been broadcast during the inquest.



So you are saying that all the fans outside had no tickets...

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:56 pm 
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Quote:
cant remember the "justice for the Heysel 39 " campaign though , never there fault :wink:


go back to sleep..

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:14 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Quote:
That is exactly what I have been waiting for. Yes they made some mistakes, but there is no way that they made the mistakes with the intent to cause injury and death. Now the cover up and lies afterward is a different matter and needs addressing.

So you are saying that they were lawfully killed.....

Were the jury offered the opportunity to give a different verdict? Were they given a list of options such as accidental death? misadventure? Had other options been available I would doubt that the unlawfully killed option would have been chosen.
Accidental death means that the person died as a result of actions by themselves or others that had unintended consequences.
What does unlawful killing mean?
This verdict means that the person was killed by an ‘unlawful act’ by someone or some others or as the result of their ‘gross negligence.’ These are both legal terms that are clearly defined in the criminal law. Unlawful killing is a very rare verdict.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:16 pm 
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grandad wrote:
MR T wrote:
Quote:
That is exactly what I have been waiting for. Yes they made some mistakes, but there is no way that they made the mistakes with the intent to cause injury and death. Now the cover up and lies afterward is a different matter and needs addressing.

So you are saying that they were lawfully killed.....

Were the jury offered the opportunity to give a different verdict? Were they given a list of options such as accidental death? misadventure? Had other options been available I would doubt that the unlawfully killed option would have been chosen.
Accidental death means that the person died as a result of actions by themselves or others that had unintended consequences.
What does unlawful killing mean?
This verdict means that the person was killed by an ‘unlawful act’ by someone or some others or as the result of their ‘gross negligence.’ These are both legal terms that are clearly defined in the criminal law. Unlawful killing is a very rare verdict.

So you are saying that they were lawfully killed.

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:30 pm 
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In English law unlawful killing is a verdict that can be returned by an inquest in England and Wales when someone has been killed by one or several unknown persons. The verdict means that the killing was done without lawful excuse and in breach of criminal law.




This official police submission said of the cause: “Senior officers found themselves suddenly overwhelmed by several thousand spectators who had converged on the Leppings Lane entrance within a few minutes of the designated time for kick-off, many of whom being the worse for drink embarked upon a determined course of action, the aim of which was to enter Hillsborough football stadium at all cost; irrespective of any danger to property, or more importantly, the lives and safety of others.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04571.html

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:32 pm 
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Hopefully this video will clear up a disaster that was simply a disaster, no one set out to kill 96 innocent's, bad policing through a lack of experience of handling such an event is the sole reason 96 innocent's died.

I've been to many Celtic games back when it was standing terraces, there was always a surge at the turnstiles just before kick off, fans though can't see that much of what's in front of them though, their trust is in the policing, we're like sheep being herded by dogs on horses, we have to go where were told to go, it is still the same now.

One memory stands out for me, I was at the 0-0 1st leg game against Nottingham Forest, European cup game (81 I think), the wall collapsed due to too many supporters, that was a scary moment, we could smell the fear, turns out though extra tickets had made there way on to the market, in the David Hay autobiography, he mentions Clough handed him an envolope with around 500 tickets, hay refused them, those tickets where sold, the Celtic end was packed solid, we knew then there was too many tickets sold, I'm sure extra tickets appearing for big games back then wasn't unique to that one game, no one has ever mentioned this could have been the case on that dreadful day, fans if offered a ticket will take that ticket not considering anything other than getting to the game.

The police are at fault for bad policing that's a fact but football clubs and corrupt club staff might also have played there part by putting out too many tickets for that match.

http://youtu.be/UMVwG2pqxeA

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:32 pm 
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It was a year into these inquests, and 26 years since David Duckenfield, as a South Yorkshire police chief superintendent, took command of the FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest, that he finally, devastatingly, admitted his serious failures directly caused the deaths of 96 people there.

Duckenfield had arrived at the converted courtroom in Warrington with traces of his former authority, but over seven airless, agonisingly tense days in the witness box last March, he was steadily worn down, surrendering slowly into a crumpled heap. From his concession that he had inadequate experience to oversee the safety of 54,000 people, to finally accepting responsibility for the deaths, Duckenfield’s admissions were shockingly complete.
At these inquests, he admitted he had given “no thought” to where the people would go if he opened the gate. He had not considered the risk of overcrowding. He had not foreseen that people would naturally go down the tunnel to the central pens right in front of them. He had not realised he should do anything to close off that tunnel. The majority of the 2,000 people allowed in through gate C went straight down the tunnel to the central pens, and gross overcrowding there caused the terrible crush. Of the 96 people who died, 30 were still outside the turnstiles at 2.52pm. They went in through gate C when invited by police, and were crushed in the central pens barely 10 minutes later.



Paul Greaney QC, representing the Police Federation – who on behalf of the rank and file principally sought to emphasise senior officers’ lack of leadership – took his turn on Duckenfield’s sixth day. Standing three rows of lawyers back, he elicited from Duckenfield admissions that he lacked competence and experience, that his knowledge of the ground was “wholly inadequate”.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... ed-decades

repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:02 am 
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I was at Hillsborough with some mates from my village in Cumbria on the day of the disaster, we drove down there about 3 months after the death of my dad in my ford Cortina.

We left about 2.45pm.

there weren't any mobile phones, so 18 years old we drove back to Cumbria, unknowing of what was happening at the stadium.

I took so much sh*t from my mates mums and dads when we got home, my ears are still ringing.

we didn't see any hordes of drunks like was described.

The people who died were innocent. Did their families actually deserve 27 years of pain, lies and reminding that they were somehow responsible for the tragic deaths of their loved ones?

The entire thing was covered up. If your ignorant enough to believe what you read, the peddled lies of 'churnalists' who instead of investigating peddled the lies of police press conferences, chose to publish lies and deceit, then you should perhaps look at yourselves.

Grandad, there has been a cynicism in your posts on this thread, whether intended, or intended, it has been there, and I am disappointed as perhaps you were, when you found your own council you were elected to, had been lying to you.

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