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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:25 am 
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Dundee taxi drivers face £100 spot fines if roof lights don’t meet the rules

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/lo ... the-rules/

Taxi drivers in Dundee have been warned they face £100 fines if they are caught with roof lights that do not comply with strict licensing conditions.

Lights fitted to the roofs of non-Hackney cabs must meet strict criteria regarding size.

In Dundee, they must have white light on the front and red at the back.

But while it is acceptable to have the name of the taxi firm printed on the rear side of the light, simply having the word “Taxi” on it is a breach of conditions.

Although many taxis previously passed inspections with lights that said “Taxi” on the rear, a clampdown on the practice by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) has seen some drivers given on-the-spot fines for lights that do not comply.

Dundee Taxi Association chairman Graeme Stephen said: “A number of cars have been going down to the station for their tests and have been passed if they had ‘taxi’ on the back.

“But we have now been told that they are not allowed to have ‘taxi’ on the back, although they can have Tay Taxis, or Tele Taxis, or the name of the company.

“I phoned the council’s licensing department and they said it came from the DVSA.”

Taxi drivers have now been warned to change their lights or face being fined.

Mr Stephen said: “Playing devil’s advocate, the rules have been back on the taxi licence for a long time, but it’s something the council has never paid much attention to until now.

“It seems a bit heavy-handed although licence conditions are part of the SVQ test to drivers should know about them.

“But they could have just put out a letter to the taxi operators saying they need to make sure they comply with the conditions.”

Mr Stephen said it will be possible for some drivers to simply remove the letters from the lights but others made of moulded plastic may have to be changed.

One taxi driver, who asked not to be named, said: “There are still quite a few taxis on the road with the wrong lights.

“This should have been picked up when a new cab went on the road at the police test or any annual police test that the council do.

“It also shows someone’s not been doing their job as the terms and conditions are on the council website regarding taxi roof signs.”

A Dundee City Council spokesperson said: “We have informed the local taxi trade about work DVSA is carrying out regarding taxi signs.”

The DVSA was asked to comment.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:30 am 
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Quote:
Lights fitted to the roofs of non-Hackney cabs must meet strict criteria regarding size.


Think that must be referring to saloon hackneys rather than 'non-hackneys'. Author must think a hackney is a purpose built hackney rather than also a saloon, er, hackney.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:56 am 
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Quote:
In Dundee, they must have white light on the front and red at the back.


Ironically, Fife's LO Mr Jenks recently wrote:

Quote:
There have been a few concerns raised recently in relation to the colour of lights on taxi roof signs and internal signs. Specifically in relation to blue lights that have made some taxis look like police vehicles from a distance.

The law in this area is a bit confusing and I have sought clarity from Police Scotland who raised one of the initial concerns.

The relevant legislation is the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 which legislates the colours of lights that can be fitted to vehicles, a link to the legislation is below.

In relation to blue lights Regulation 16(b) states :

No vehicle, other than an emergency vehicle or a vehicle used for special forces purposes, shall be fitted with—

(a) a blue warning beacon or special warning lamp, or

(b) a device which resembles a blue warning beacon or a special warning lamp, whether the same is in working order or not.

The key word here is ‘resembles’. That gives a wide interpretation to the Police and all they need to show is there is a likelihood of confusion in the eyes of the public to prove the offence.

You should give careful consideration to the colour of lights that are displayed on taxi signs either on the roof or any internal signs that can be seen from outside of the vehicles.

The best advice I can give at the moment is avoid blue coloured lights and red lights.


:shock:

Quote:
But while it is acceptable to have the name of the taxi firm printed on the rear side of the light, simply having the word “Taxi” on it is a breach of conditions.

Although many taxis previously passed inspections with lights that said “Taxi” on the rear, a clampdown on the practice by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) has seen some drivers given on-the-spot fines for lights that do not comply.


Anyone ever heard of DVSA taking interest in taxi roof lights, and what rules are being enforced here? Only thing I can think of is that a roof light shouldn't show white at the back, thus should be red (although Mr Jenks in Fife seems to think red shouldn't be used), but not sure what DVSA's interest in the wording would be. #-o


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:57 pm 
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I once got told off by a police officer in Rutland because my taxi sign was white at the front and red at the back. Had to switch my meter off to make sure light not showing and told to get red backing removed which is difficult as it is painted onto the inside of most roof lights.

He would NOT accept that nearly every roof light in the uk was that colour :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:51 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
I once got told off by a police officer in Rutland because my taxi sign was white at the front and red at the back. Had to switch my meter off to make sure light not showing and told to get red backing removed which is difficult as it is painted onto the inside of most roof lights.

He would NOT accept that nearly every roof light in the uk was that colour :roll:


I always thought reason many rooflights had red backing was because of the basic rule that you shouldn't show a white light at the back of a vehicle, except reversing lights, lights to illuminate the number plate and various other exceptions which aren't relevant.

Not sure what the highlighted exemption at (2)(f) is all about :-k


Quote:
REGULATIONS GOVERNING THE FITTING OF LAMPS, REFLECTORS, REAR MARKINGS AND DEVICES

Colour of light shown by lamps and reflectors

-------------------------------------

(2) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except–

(a) amber light from a direction indicator or side marker lamp;

(b) white light from a reversing lamp;

(c) white light from a work lamp;

(d) light to illuminate the interior of a vehicle;

(e) light from an illuminated rear registration plate;

(f) light for the purposes of illuminating a taxi meter;

(g) in the case of a bus, light for the purposes of illuminating a route indicator;

(h) blue light and white light from a chequered domed lamp fitted to a police control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency;

(i) white light from a red and white chequered domed lamp, or a red and white segmented mast-mounted warning beacon, fitted to a fire service control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency;

(j) green light and white light from a chequered domed lamp fitted to an ambulance control vehicle and intended for use at the scene of an emergency;

(k) blue light from a warning beacon or rear special warning lamp fitted to an emergency vehicle, or from any device fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;

(l) amber light from a warning beacon fitted to–

(i) a road clearance vehicle;

(ii) a vehicle constructed or adapted for the purpose of collecting refuse;

(iii) a breakdown vehicle;

(iv) a vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph or any trailer drawn by such a vehicle;

(v) a vehicle having an overall width (including any load) exceeding 2.9 m;

(vi) a vehicle used for the purposes of testing, maintaining, improving, cleansing or watering roads or for any purpose incidental to any such use;

(vii) a vehicle used for the purpose of inspecting, cleansing, maintaining, adjusting, renewing or installing any apparatus which is in, on, under or over a road, or for any purpose incidental to any such use;

(viii) a vehicle used for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised to be used on roads by an order under section 44 of the Act;

(ix) a vehicle used for escort purposes when travelling at a speed not exceeding 25 mph;

(x) a vehicle used by the Commissioners of Customs and Excise for the purpose of testing fuels;

(xi) a vehicle used for the purpose of surveying;

(xii) a vehicle used for the removal or immobilisation of vehicles in exercise of a statutory power or duty;

(m) green light from a warning beacon fitted to a vehicle used by a medical practitioner registered by the General Medical Council (whether with full, provisional or limited registration);

(n) yellow light from a warning beacon fitted to a vehicle for use at airports;

(o) light of any colour from a traffic sign which is attached to a vehicle;

(p) reflected light from amber pedal retro reflectors;

(q) reflected light of any colour from retro reflective material or a retro reflector designed primarily to reflect light to one or both sides of the vehicle and attached to or incorporated in any wheel or tyre of–

(i) a pedal cycle and any sidecar attached to it;

(ii) a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination; or

(iii) an invalid carriage;

(r) reflected light from amber retro reflective material on a road clearance vehicle;

(s) reflected light from yellow retro reflective registration plates;

(t) reflected light from yellow retro reflective material incorporated in a rear marking of a type specified in Part I Section B of Schedule 19 and fitted to–

(i) a motor vehicle having a maximum gross weight exceeding 7500 kg;

(ii) a motor vehicle first used before 1st August 1982 having an unladen weight exceeding 3000 kg;

(iii) a trailer having a maximum gross weight exceeding 3500 kg;

(iv) a trailer manufactured before 1st August 1982 having an unladen weight exceeding 1000 kg;

(v) a trailer which forms part of a combination of vehicles one of which is of a type mentioned in a previous item of this sub-paragraph;

(vi) a load carried by any vehicle; or

(u) reflected light from orange retro reflective material incorporated in a sign fitted to the rear of a vehicle carrying a dangerous substance within the meaning of the Dangerous Substances (Conveyance by Road in Road Tankers and Tank Containers) Regulations 1981(1) or the Road Traffic (Carriage of Dangerous Substances in Packages etc) Regulations 1986(2)


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989 ... rt/II/made


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:18 pm 
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The question that comes to mind is,

Does it really f***ing matter?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
The question that comes to mind is,

Does it really f***ing matter?



Personally I think there ought to be a "standard " colour for hackneys perhaps yellow or opaque white and another for PH where roof lights are permitted perhaps pink or lime green so that there is no confusion

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
The question that comes to mind is,

Does it really f***ing matter?


Well it does matter if anyone's being fined £100 for a rule that's unclear and no one seems able to clarify.

Suspect there's more to the Dundee situation than was disclosed in the article, but whatever's going on looks like another prime example of regulatory inconsistency, to put it as nicely as possible. :-#


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:05 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
Well it does matter if anyone's being fined £100 for a rule that's unclear and no one seems able to clarify.

But should the council take to task, to the tune of £100, a simple mistake/breach that in no way effect safety?

Absolute madness.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:43 am 
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Can LA's in Scotland issue fines?

Can DVSA issue fines?

Thought both had to go via Courts.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:09 pm 
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FFS if they came to the Borders they could retire on the proceeds, all shapes and sizes, one stupid driver hasn't even noticed his has been changed from Ace to @rse :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Chris the Fish wrote:
Can LA's in Scotland issue fines?

Can DVSA issue fines?

Thought both had to go via Courts.


Yes - don't know about DVSA, but councils certainly can't issue on the spot fines for that kind of thing.

Thought about making enquiries about this, but couldn't be bothered, although suspect article is largely mince. [-(


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