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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Uber loses appeal against drivers' work status

Minicab app Uber has lost an appeal over a landmark ruling that their drivers are workers and not self-employed. The ride-hailing firm had attempted to overturn employment tribunal findings which have paved the way for tens of thousands of its drivers in the UK to receive the national minimum wage and paid holiday.

At the Court of Appeal in London senior judges ruled by two to one that the original ruling was "plainly correct."

Master of the Rolls Sir Terence Etherton, with whom Lord Justice Bean agreed, said the tribunal was "not only entitled, but correct" to find that each of the claimants was driving for Uber as a "worker". Dismissing Uber's appeal, he added: "As to the reality, not only do we see no reason to disagree with the factual conclusions of the (tribunal) as to the working relationship between Uber and the drivers, but we consider that the (tribunal) was plainly correct."

Lord Justice Underhill, dissenting, said drivers should only be treated as working from the moment they accept a trip. He said the issues raised in the appeal were matters of policy which Parliament was "better placed" to consider than the courts. He added: "The whole question of whether and how to adapt existing employment law protections to the development of the so-called gig economy, and in particular to the use of service-provision platforms such as Uber, is under active review by the Government at present."

Sir Terence allowed Uber permission to appeal to the Supreme Court.

Yaseen Aslam, one of the drivers involved in the case, said: "I'm delighted with today's ruling, but frustrated that the process has dragged on for over three years. "It cannot be left to precarious workers like us to bring companies like Uber to account and, despite the personal price we have had to pay, we are the lucky ones.

"We know of many that are under such hardship that it would be unimaginable for them to take a multi-billion pound company to court. "It is now time for the Government and the Mayor of London to act and stop letting companies like Uber take them for a ride."

In November 2017, the Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT) dismissed Uber's appeal against an earlier tribunal ruling that former drivers Yaseen Aslam and James Farrar were "workers" at the time they were operating for Uber. But, at a hearing in October, the company's barrister Dinah Rose QC said the finding that Uber drivers were workers ignored the fact that its relationship with drivers was "typical of the private hire industry".

Uber was not "unusual" because of the relationship between it and its drivers, "but because the Uber app enables it to operate on a much larger scale than traditional minicab companies", she argued. The initial employment tribunal found Uber's agreements with drivers contained "fictions, twisted language and even brand new terminology", and that the contracts "did not correspond with the practical reality".

However, Ms Rose said that the contracts "reflected the true relationship and terms of the agreements between the parties". She added that both tribunals had "erred in law" in concluding that the pair were workers, submitting that they had "wrongly disregarded the written contracts in which the parties' agreements were recorded".

Jason Galbraith-Marten QC, for Mr Aslam and Mr Farrar, said there was "no express agreement" by which the claimants appointed Uber "to act as their agent and setting out the nature and extent of that agency". He said that the tribunals' task was therefore to "determine the true nature of the (implied) agreement" between drivers and Uber.

Mr Galbraith-Marten said the tribunals were "entitled to ask whether the claimants are genuinely in business on their own account" or whether they were "providing their services" to Uber. He added that, if Uber was not acting as the drivers' agent, "the purported driver-passenger contract is indeed a fiction".

Before the October hearing, hundreds of "precarious workers" attended a demonstration organised by the Independent Workers Union of Great Britain (IWGB), which represents Mr Aslam and Mr Farrar. IWGB general secretary Jason Moyer-Lee described the demonstration as "the articulation of the legitimate rage of the precarious workers and the exploited workers of the UK".

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Well done to the drivers and their unions for a) getting it this far, and b) for succeeding at every hearing. =D> =D> =D>

I thought, at the beginning, they would struggle against Uber as opposed to the likes of Addison Lee, but the courts have decided for the drivers in both cases.

Very glad to be proved wrong. 8-[

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Lord Justice Underhill, dissenting, said drivers should only be treated as working from the moment they accept a trip.

If that's the best Uber can get out of the dissenting Judge, then Uber's chance of a successful appeal at the SC are IMO slim.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:19 pm 
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This article from Wired predates today's judgement, but gives a fascinating background to how this all started and the people behind this battle.

It's quite long so best viewed from here via a link.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uber-em ... -leigh-day

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:42 pm 
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Having re-read the judgement I'm taken aback a bit by the harshness of the comments at the end about Uber's so-called driver's agreement/contract.

The latter concerns the question as to what reasonable people would consider to be the reality of the actual working relationship between Uber and its drivers. We consider that the extended meaning of "sham" endorsed in Autoclenz provides the common law with ample flexibility to address the convoluted, complex and artificial contractual arrangements, no doubt formulated by a battery of lawyers, unilaterally drawn up and dictated by Uber to tens of thousands of drivers and passengers, not one of whom is in a position to correct or otherwise resist the contractual language.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Oh, and it seems the one issue that I thought would play a huge part in this case i.e. the requirement to take 80% of jobs offered to drivers, appears to have not been an issue.

Despite Uber saying, when the previous judgement was laid down, that that point raised by the previous hearing was incorrect.

Maybe Uber's battery of lawyers were concentrating on their 'sham' and forgot about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Having re-read the judgement I'm taken aback a bit by the harshness of the comments at the end about Uber's so-called driver's agreement/contract.

A point outlined in this article from a Legal Trade Mag.

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/coa-cr ... 29.article

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:01 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Having re-read the judgement...

:shock: 8-[ [-(


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:09 pm 
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findings which have paved the way for tens of thousands of its drivers in the UK to receive the national minimum wage and paid holiday.

don't recall it being about NMW originally and that would be very difficult to control or police

I thought it was sick pay and holiday pay; sick pay now covered via insurance which the drivers have to pay

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:17 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
findings which have paved the way for tens of thousands of its drivers in the UK to receive the national minimum wage and paid holiday.

don't recall it being about NMW originally and that would be very difficult to control or police

I thought it was sick pay and holiday pay; sick pay now covered via insurance which the drivers have to pay

I think it was minimum wage and holiday pay. The contributory sick pay scheme was what they were offered as a way of appeasing them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 pm 
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French court follows UK in ruling against Uber in 'employment' contract case

Ride-hailing service Uber lost an appeal in France brought by a former driver who wanted to be recognised as a full employee. The ruling on Thursday overturns one from last year when a French court decided in favour of Uber, saying its drivers could refuse customers if they wanted to and were not told how many hours to work by the firm.

The ruling was hailed as a "landmark decision" by the plaintiff's attorney, Fabien Masson, and follows a similar court decision last month in Britain that Uber should give its drivers workers' rights, including the national minimum wage and holiday time.

The former driver sued the company in June 2017, two months after Uber had deactivated his account, to have his "commercial accord" re-evaluated as an employment contract. He was seeking reimbursement for holidays and expenses as well as contract termination and "undeclared work" indemnities.

The Paris court determined the contract between Uber and the former driver was "an employment contract" on the basis of the driver being dependent on the ride-hailing service for work. The court further pointed out that the plaintiff had signed a "registration partnership" with the company which did not give him the freedom to choose his clients or charge his own rates.

Thereby, the court ruled that Uber had "control" over the driver.

In response to the ruling, Uber announced today that it will reappeal the ruling in La Cour De Cassation, France's highest appeal court. A Uber spokeswoman said that the reappeal was to "preserve flexibility" where "drivers can decide to connect in real time and without any requirement of exclusivity." "Drivers choose to use the Uber application for the freedom to connect to it when they want" she added.

Uber has long maintained it is simply a service provider, connecting people needing a ride with drivers - either amateurs or professionals, depending on the country - in about 630 cities worldwide. The company has argued that it is just a service provider that people can use to request rides from drivers listed on its service.

The European Court of Justice views the ride-hailing service as a transportation service, for which the same regulations on traditional taxis and other ride providers also apply.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:53 pm 
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The Paris court determined the contract between Uber and the former driver was "an employment contract" on the basis of the driver being dependent on the ride-hailing service for work. The court further pointed out that the plaintiff had signed a "registration partnership" with the company which did not give him the freedom to choose his clients or charge his own rates.


can any French driver set their own rates ? I thought their system was similar to ours ?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:18 pm 
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edders23 wrote:
The Paris court determined the contract between Uber and the former driver was "an employment contract" on the basis of the driver being dependent on the ride-hailing service for work. The court further pointed out that the plaintiff had signed a "registration partnership" with the company which did not give him the freedom to choose his clients or charge his own rates.


can any French driver set their own rates ? I thought their system was similar to ours ?


So what part of the statement about the judgement isn't applicable here?

It's the French equivalent of PHVs, presumably. Or even unlicensed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:28 pm 
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So what part of the statement about the judgement isn't applicable here?

In my view the French Court mirrored the sentiments of the Employment Tribunal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:39 pm 
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can any French driver set their own rates ?

To a degree we can all set our own rates, the only exception is taxis in their borough not charging more than the max.

Maybe taxi rates in Paris only relate to rank or flag work, or Uber use unlicensed vehicles there.

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