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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:26 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
greenbadgecabby wrote:
As long as they irritate the old Minicabs, I'll keep paying my subscriptions. :lol:

Irritate me no, amuse me yes. All the pious preachings from Oddy and Steve Mac on the radio make my day. :lol:

Still why should they bother themselves with such trivial issues as the KOL? :-$

Ollie



Almost as good as the advert currently on the radio about rapes in Minicabs.

A timely reminder to help my earnings a bit more. :wink:

Good old Ken.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:04 pm 
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greenbadgecabby wrote:
The only vested interest we have is LTI vehicles, the Knowledge is a quality control which is like any other in the world.



Whatever the merits of the KOL, the taxi drivers still have a vested interest in its retention.

As regards quality control, would it be reasonable to specify that taxi drivers have to be able to do the 100m in less than 11 seconds and have a PhD in Chemistry?

Of course not - to use the OFT's words, quality control must be 'proportionate'.

Whether the KOK is or not is another matter, but I think just tos say that since it's a quality control matter then its OK doesn't quite address the issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:07 pm 
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London Newbie wrote:
The future will be a fully licensed Knowledge Sat Nav system which you will rent from PCO for £X per week/year. It will have all London roads both covering both yellow and green badge areas. It will have a full list of all points in London. It will also cover the whole UK. It will be updated weekly by the net.



Yes, this seems to be the antithesis of the KOL - ie a no-brainer :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:26 pm 
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greenbadgecabby wrote:
Is that from your experience then Sussex?

In what way is an oral test of a route between two points draconian or from the dark ages? :-s

Oh yes, all anyone has to do is to read the section in the report titled KOL.

I was going to paste the relevant bits, but most of it should confirm to anyone without a green badge that the whole proceedure is well and truely in the dark ages. :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:28 pm 
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TDO wrote:
greenbadgecabby wrote:
The only vested interest we have is LTI vehicles, the Knowledge is a quality control which is like any other in the world.



Whatever the merits of the KOL, the taxi drivers still have a vested interest in its retention.

As regards quality control, would it be reasonable to specify that taxi drivers have to be able to do the 100m in less than 11 seconds and have a PhD in Chemistry?

Of course not - to use the OFT's words, quality control must be 'proportionate'.

Whether the KOK is or not is another matter, but I think just tos say that since it's a quality control matter then its OK doesn't quite address the issue.


There is no doubting the high standards of gaining ones badge in London but it was those same high standards the led to the findings in this report. It is not for me to say how high the quality bar should be raised but you hit the nail on the head when you implied perhaps it is raised a little too high? It would seem TFL intend to do something about it and the criticism metered out to the PCO might also suggest that changes are also coming their way?

I suppose whatever changes do take place, some will accept them as being reasonable and others might not. Maybe its a little premature to condemn something before you know exactly what it is you are condemning?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:44 pm 
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Can't quite work this bit out. :-k

5.16 The review of the Conditions of Fitness has had to delay announcing its findings due to potential legal action from other vehicle manufacturers wanting the specifications changed.

If the report will not stand up to legal action, then change the report to one that does. Why delay? :-k

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:56 am 
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Sussex wrote:
greenbadgecabby wrote:
Is that from your experience then Sussex?

In what way is an oral test of a route between two points draconian or from the dark ages? :-s

Oh yes, all anyone has to do is to read the section in the report titled KOL.

I was going to paste the relevant bits, but most of it should confirm to anyone without a green badge that the whole proceedure is well and truely in the dark ages. :shock:


. . . or to someone who wants a Green Badge far to much effort and commitment.

Perhaps we should extend this to Doctors or Accountants?

Don't worry about the 6 year University course, just sign here, do a couple of tests on a computer and heres your . . . . .

If someone wants something : work for it.

Just think if Eastbourne had a Knowledge test and no restrictions on numbers like London, you would have your plate by now. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:59 am 
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TDO wrote:
Of course not - to use the OFT's words, quality control must be 'proportionate'.



I would say learning your way around the Metropolis would be a reasonable control? :-s

My TomTom has demonstrated quite well how it will never replace what I know about a vast area of our Capital.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:05 am 
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greenbadgecabby wrote:
Just think if Eastbourne had a Knowledge test and no restrictions on numbers like London, you would have your plate by now. :wink:

More than likley, that's why I have always thought having a 3 year knowledge is better than a 10/20/30 year waiting list.

But that still doesn't make the 3 year knowledge right.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:42 am 
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London Newbie wrote:
The future will be a fully licensed Knowledge Sat Nav system which you will rent from PCO for £X per week/year. It will have all London roads both covering both yellow and green badge areas. It will have a full list of all points in London. It will also cover the whole UK. It will be updated weekly by the net.

If any of you guys have use Sat Nav you will know what I am talking about. The only problems come from the mapping software and POI's. If the PCO spent some money on these issues the door would be open.

The punter gets in the cab, puts in the address he wants to go into the touch screen in the back of the cab and bob's yer unkle. Your punter can even watch the journey on the screen, see the ETA, DTG, route etc.

The only barrier to entry them will be money. Why put all that effort in to learning the knowledge? A child would be able to do it with a robust Sat Nav system.

You need to get in at ground level, this will happen, it's not if but when.

Peace


PS Sat Nav's don't work in snow, not normally a problem but what's that on the news..... :wink:

technoligy is great
get in the cab punch in youre card details punch in youre destination and bobs youre uncle,eerrrrm.................. and whats the driver thier for ?
much eisier and quicker just to tell the fully qualified driver where you want to go surely.
be carefull what you wish for
the only barrier being money ?
yeh i wonder how much the new fully automated robot taxi will be when they come out
driver not included (or needed)
:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:18 pm 
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greenbadgecabby wrote:
I would say learning your way around the Metropolis would be a reasonable control? :-s

My TomTom has demonstrated quite well how it will never replace what I know about a vast area of our Capital.


Well I don't know Mr GBC.

I know there are good reasons to keep the KOL, but if designing it from scratch I don't think I would make it quite as rigorous as it is now.

Indeed I don't think I would make the task of becoming of a taxi driver as difficult as in London anywhere. Of course, knowing your area intimately has its merits, but an accountant does not have to know every facet of his work that he might come into contact with to qualify (such as insolvency) and a doctors specialise after qualifying, because to know every aspect of medicine before becoming a doctor would simply take too long and would be disproportionate and unreasonable as regards what they have to do (to take the analogy you used earlier).

Tell me, why don't the green badge holders have to know the suburban areas in intimate detail to get their badge?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:02 pm 
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I think the part of the report that does point to the dark ages is;

Many organisations believe that these problems are leading to an ageing and declining licensed taxi driver population. Indeed, 98% of licensed taxi drivers are over 30, and there are more drivers aged over 70 than there are aged under 30.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:21 am 
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I must put my two pennys worth in.
I am one of the OLD BOYS. 43 years of it, and peed off with it all.
It is no longer any fun. I have had more PCNs this year than in the other 42 years. I am at the moment searching for a part time career change. :lol:

The KOL is not just knowing how to get from A to B.
It is knowing where is B.
The countless times I have had a job that does not know where they are going. It's true, I have even had to find locations with just a telephone number.
T
he times that the location given is. The wrong post code, mis-spelt names. As for the forien visitors without any English.... It's knowing how to handle these sort of situations.

But on the other foot. Modern tecnology and gadgets such as Sat-nav, mobile phones that with a call can get you names and addresses or onto the internet to search for the location you require.
So is it a catch 22?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:34 pm 
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TDO wrote:
I know there are good reasons to keep the KOL, but if designing it from scratch I don't think I would make it quite as rigorous as it is now.



Luckily you won't either.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:43 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I think the part of the report that does point to the dark ages is;

Many organisations believe that these problems are leading to an ageing and declining licensed taxi driver population. Indeed, 98% of licensed taxi drivers are over 30, and there are more drivers aged over 70 than there are aged under 30.



So because people don't start the Knowledge until they are in their 30's that makes it the Dark ages.

Thats a bit like me saying Eastbourne is predominantly made up of people over 65, so it must be in the dark ages? :?

You cannot sign onto the Knowledge until you have turned 21, so I'm not surprised we have an older age of driver.

Tell me how that detracts from the level of service offered or indeed the driver numbers which continue at over 25,000?

I think, a bit like Pete babes, your grasping at reasons to alter something thats works perfectly well, but does'nt satisfy LTI and greedy cab rental fleet owners, not to mention the ever growing band of Minicab drivers who want to become Taxi drivers, minus getting off their lazy arses and doing some work to obtain a London Badge.

One gets a strong smell of provincial jealousy appearing in this thread. :wink:


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