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 Post subject: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 346
My friend who is a newbie to the trade has a ford custom with 8 seats,he is a hackney like me.we are both licenced to carry 6 people,he is doncaster and I am Sheffield. I have insurance for 8 people,he has insurance for 9 . I know that I can only take 7 people if it is family and/or friends ,he has thought he can do private hire jobs of above 6 because he has that insurance. I agree if his council allows 7/8/9 hackneys then yes but they don't.just like my authority they only allow up to 6 seats. I have spoken with both authorities and they both agree. I think he has been living in cloud cuckoo land!.he claims he asked them when he first bought the cab but,I said he must have been talking to one of the newbies in the licensing office.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:29 pm 
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Once licensed, your vehicle is always licensed so you could be in trouble if you carry 7 passengers when licensed for 6.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:32 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Once licensed, your vehicle is always licensed so you could be in trouble if you carry 7 passengers when licensed for 6.


Even if you're using the vehicle as a private car, and your insurance, and the construction and use regulations, allow for more passengers than it's licensed for as a cab?


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:57 pm 
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My council agree that I can use it for more than 6 if it's my family or friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:17 pm 
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rayggb wrote:
My council agree that I can use it for more than 6 if it's my family or friends.



It would appear not only Councils in this instance but also the proprietors require training in the TAXI law.
NO Council who believes in public safety would license a vehicle to carry a number of passengers and have more seats than that number in the vehicle.
A license for a TAXI cannot be granted for 9 passengers.

I do not believe an insurance company will insure a vehicle and its passengers for a greater number than it is licensed for.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:38 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
It would appear not only Councils in this instance but also the proprietors require training in the TAXI law.
NO Council who believes in public safety would license a vehicle to carry a number of passengers and have more seats than that number in the vehicle.
A license for a TAXI cannot be granted for 9 passengers.


I took the 9 to be referring to the number of people in the vehicle, ie including driver. So basically it's probably an eight-seater like a VW Transporter, ie three in each row including two passengers in front including the driver.

heathcote wrote:
I do not believe an insurance company will insure a vehicle and its passengers for a greater number than it is licensed for.


Certainly if you're using the vehicle as a cab then insurance won't pay out if it's overloaded, thus in breach of conditions. But that leaves open the question of private use.

Quite common for councils to specify *lower* seating capacity than allowed for under construction and use rules, but not a higher seating capacity.

For example, you could legally use some MPVs for three passengers in one row as a private car, but not as a cab because of seat width restrictions, just as you could legally have had three people in the back of a Ford Escort, but probably not as a cab, depending on local rules.

And I think some councils have banned two passengers from the front seats of Transporter-style vehicles because the middle passenger is too close to the driver - wasn't there a case on here recently about a driver being accused of some sort of sexual touching in that scenario, but what looked like an attempt to get out of paying the fare?

Anyway, presumably here the insurance companies are providing cover on the basis that it's used with the legal capacity as a private vehicle, but with a lower capacity as a cab in compliance with whatever rules the council in question specifies.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:39 pm 
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StuartW wrote:

Certainly if you're using the vehicle as a cab then insurance won't pay out if it's overloaded, thus in breach of conditions. But that leaves open the question of private use.


But once it is licensed it is always licensed so the rules still apply.

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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:08 pm 
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My E7 is licenced for 6 but I along with many others have a front front 7th seat. I can use that 7th seat only for family and/or friends that's why I insure it for 8 people including myself (driver).we changed years ago to be able to use it for social and domestic as well as public (hackney).remember when the tax disc stated hackney?.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm
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rayggb wrote:
My E7 is licenced for 6 but I along with many others have a front front 7th seat. I can use that 7th seat only for family and/or friends that's why I insure it for 8 people including myself (driver).we changed years ago to be able to use it for social and domestic as well as public (hackney).remember when the tax disc stated hackney?.



You still have to abide by the regulations of your license,the vehicle can only carry the number of passengers stated on your plate ie 6.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:53 am 
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I do abide by the licence,6 paying passengers in the back.why does the council MOT testers continually pass it(also 400 others) if it wasn't kosher ?. I verified it with them again when querying about my mate.surely they would not allow the front passenger seat otherwise.years ago they wouldn't allow a front passenger seat (Austin time)but that would have been the same time it was taxed (disc) only as a hackney ,which I remember was cheaper than normal tax disc.they opened it up so that you could use it for social/domestic use.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:20 pm 
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rayggb wrote:
I do abide by the licence,6 paying passengers in the back.why does the council MOT testers continually pass it(also 400 others) if it wasn't kosher ?. I verified it with them again when querying about my mate.surely they would not allow the front passenger seat otherwise.years ago they wouldn't allow a front passenger seat (Austin time)but that would have been the same time it was taxed (disc) only as a hackney ,which I remember was cheaper than normal tax disc.they opened it up so that you could use it for social/domestic use.



Oh no they did not.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:22 pm 
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grandad wrote:
StuartW wrote:

Certainly if you're using the vehicle as a cab then insurance won't pay out if it's overloaded, thus in breach of conditions. But that leaves open the question of private use.


But once it is licensed it is always licensed so the rules still apply.


Well I don't know the precise law on this (and I doubt if there is precise law on this), but common sense would dictate that in some regards you're right (eg keeping plate affixed at all times) while in others it would depend on the rule and its intended purpose - eg engaging the meter when passengers on board.

And Ray's LA certainly seems to think that it depends on whether it's paying passengers or not as regards seating capacity. And, for example, didn't another LA recently say that drivers could switch off compulsory CCTV when cab being used for social and domestic?

That certainly seems to be the approach of the insurers as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:40 pm 
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rayggb wrote:
My council agree that I can use it for more than 6 if it's my family or friends.


Ask your nice council to put it in writing, bet they won’t.
There wrong as grandad states a hackney is always a Hackney, even when your using it privately.
I also believe that by carrying more than the number of passengers, your driving without insurance
Insurance companies only insure for the number of passengers your licensed to carry.
Your arguments don’t hold water,
If I insure for carrying 12 people does that mean I can carry 12?
Can I smoke in the vehicle?
Can I let other people drive it?
Why not it’s not working, I can do what I want, it’s private use.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:39 pm 
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mancityfan wrote:
There wrong as grandad states a hackney is always a Hackney, even when your using it privately.

Which maybe illustrates the slightly illogical nature of your argument - if it was always and absolutely an HC (or PHV) then you wouldn't be able to use it privately at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Legal seats
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 346
I'll phone my LA again on Monday and the insurance to verify for arguments sake,even though I phoned the LA Thursday on this matter.


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