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 Post subject: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:45 am 
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some members of the trade requested a tariff change a while ago. This went before the committee and was recommended for acceptance after consultation. The consultation ended at the end of April. There were a couple of objections received and they were due to be discussed at the committee meeting last night. After considering the objections the committee decided to defer the decision to a later date.
Now the situation is this. The 1976 act states If objection is duly made as aforesaid and is not withdrawn, the district council shall set a further date, not later than two months after the first specified date, on
which the table of fares shall come into force with or without modifications as
decided by them after consideration of the objections.
Now the 2 months runs out at the end of this month and the fares were due to increase on July 1st having previously been May 1st.
What happens if they don't get the deferred decision sorted by the 1st july?

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Do you mean July 1st,if so the fare should be implemented from 1st July.


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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:36 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
Do you mean July 1st,if so the fare should be implemented from 1st July.

The new chair has not been told of any deadline and as far as he is aware the committee have the option to revke the earlier decision and start the process again.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:52 pm 
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grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Do you mean July 1st,if so the fare should be implemented from 1st July.

The new chair has not been told of any deadline and as far as he is aware the committee have the option to revke the earlier decision and start the process again.



I cannot see where they are allowed to stop the process and start again,it is clear in the Act that they have to implement the Tariff increase in one form or another.


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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:42 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
grandad wrote:
heathcote wrote:
Do you mean July 1st,if so the fare should be implemented from 1st July.

The new chair has not been told of any deadline and as far as he is aware the committee have the option to revke the earlier decision and start the process again.



I cannot see where they are allowed to stop the process and start again,it is clear in the Act that they have to implement the Tariff increase in one form or another.

I think the main problem is with the advice they get from the licensing team. The previous committee are all but gone. the chair and vice chairs did not get re-elected and the rest didn't want to go on the committee again. the new lot were given a report about the objections but say they have no background to the original proposal and the licensing team told them that there wasn't any. This was incorrect information because the original proposal along with supporting evidence has been before the previous committee 3 times.
I think someone is trying to scupper the review. It has been going on since October last year.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:43 pm 
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I have suggested to the chair that he stops listening to what he is being told and reads the act for himself.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:01 pm 
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Quote:
What happens if they don't get the deferred decision sorted by the 1st july?

Back to square one.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:08 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Quote:
What happens if they don't get the deferred decision sorted by the 1st july?

Back to square one.

what does this part of section 65 mean then?
4) If objection is duly made as aforesaid and is not withdrawn, the district council shall set a further date, not later than two months after the first specified date, on which the table of fares shall come into force with or without modifications as decided by them after consideration of the objections.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:28 am 
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I have just had a phone call from one of the previous licensing committee members who sat on the meeting as a substitute. She could not believe the incompetence of the report. The author of the report had provided some tables for the members to understand the figures.
The first part was comparing the starting rates,
currently £2.50 for 1/3 of a mile to be changed to £3.00 for 1/2 a mile.
So to give a percentage difference he has stated that if you have 3 starting rates at the current rate this will give a fare of £7.50 and if you have 2 starting rates at the proposed new rate which will give a fare of £6.00 so this is going to be a fare reduction. He can't get his head around that you can't have 3 starting rates on one journey. The former member stated that this was pointed out to him months ago and was removed from the papers pack and replaced with a proper version before the meeting that approved the fares in March and she can't understand why it has re-appeared. The officer could not explain why and would not remove it from the pack.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:51 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
What happens if they don't get the deferred decision sorted by the 1st july?

Back to square one.

what does this part of section 65 mean then?
4) If objection is duly made as aforesaid and is not withdrawn, the district council shall set a further date, not later than two months after the first specified date, on which the table of fares shall come into force with or without modifications as decided by them after consideration of the objections.

The first date is the date that objections (via the advertisement) had to be in by.

So basically the council had two months to implement an amended tariff once the objection date past, or start afresh i.e. new advert etc.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:30 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
What happens if they don't get the deferred decision sorted by the 1st july?

Back to square one.

what does this part of section 65 mean then?
4) If objection is duly made as aforesaid and is not withdrawn, the district council shall set a further date, not later than two months after the first specified date, on which the table of fares shall come into force with or without modifications as decided by them after consideration of the objections.

The first date is the date that objections (via the advertisement) had to be in by.

So basically the council had two months to implement an amended tariff once the objection date past, or start afresh i.e. new advert etc.



Still do not think the Council can get out of implementing the fares on July 1st.


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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:07 am 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Quote:
What happens if they don't get the deferred decision sorted by the 1st july?

Back to square one.

what does this part of section 65 mean then?
4) If objection is duly made as aforesaid and is not withdrawn, the district council shall set a further date, not later than two months after the first specified date, on which the table of fares shall come into force with or without modifications as decided by them after consideration of the objections.

The first date is the date that objections (via the advertisement) had to be in by.

So basically the council had two months to implement an amended tariff once the objection date past, or start afresh i.e. new advert etc.

Please point me to anywhere that says that they start afresh? All I can see is that the table of fares SHALL come into force with or without modification.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:43 pm 
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1. Council, following a period of consultations with the trade, agree a new tariff charge change.

2. The Council then advertises those changes, inviting objections within 14 days. The advertisement should state that the changes will come into effect on a certain date, usually at the end of those 14 days.

3. If objections are received, and not withdrawn, the council must meet and agree to keep the changes, reject the changes, or amend the changes. Any decision must be decided within two months of the first date.

4. If no decision is made within those two months then councils have no powers to raise fares. This isn't a case of where does it say that directly, it doesn't need to. The powers to set fares have a two month (from first date) timeline. Any increase outside of those parameters would be outside of the law.

Maybe those that wrote the legislation had councils that couldn't be arsed to make a decision in mind, and these provisions ensured they should be arsed.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:00 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
1. Council, following a period of consultations with the trade, agree a new tariff charge change.

2. The Council then advertises those changes, inviting objections within 14 days. The advertisement should state that the changes will come into effect on a certain date, usually at the end of those 14 days.

3. If objections are received, and not withdrawn, the council must meet and agree to keep the changes, reject the changes, or amend the changes. Any decision must be decided within two months of the first date.

4. If no decision is made within those two months then councils have no powers to raise fares. This isn't a case of where does it say that directly, it doesn't need to. The powers to set fares have a two month (from first date) timeline. Any increase outside of those parameters would be outside of the law.

Maybe those that wrote the legislation had councils that couldn't be arsed to make a decision in mind, and these provisions ensured they should be arsed.

The situation we have is that the council are not likely to make a decision within the 2 months timeframe so wouldn't that make the council in breach of the law for non determination? From what you seem to be saying the council can just sit on any request and do nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: what happens now?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:24 pm 
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Council once wanted to implement fare increase outside the 2 month period and found out to their cost that they were in breach of the Act and had to implement the new tariff immediately.


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