Taxi Driver Online

TRAFFORD COUNCIL BACKS LONDON TAXIS

A bid to relax strict rules on the type of vehicle that can be used as a taxi in Trafford was thrown out last night as councillors backed purpose-built cabs.

Members of Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council, in Manchester, decided to review the conditions which dictate which vehicles can be used as Hackney carriages in the borough.

But after hearing the arguments for and against licensing alternate vehicles, such as the Peugeot E7, they decided to keep the current standards, which include the fact that hailed taxis should have a 25-foot turning circle and be fully-wheelchair-accessible, among other things.

The ruling came on the same day that the Public Carriage Office announced that it would retain the same Conditions of Fitness in London after a lengthy consultation process.

The decision is a victory for safety campaigners who maintain that only the classic black cabs should be licensed as Hackney carriages to stop rogue drivers posing as cabbies to lure unsuspecting passengers into their vehicles.

“The Trafford taxi trade was unanimously of the view that they did not want vehicles other than the classic cab to be licensed for Hackney carriage trade,” said Andrew Overton, Market Development Consultant for LTI Vehicles, which manufactures the TXII, the latest incarnation of the London taxi.

”There were around 20 representatives of the taxi trade at the meeting and the members of the committee heard submissions by Allied Vehicles, LTI Vehicles and the drivers before making their decision.

“It was argued that the small turning circle was not relevant to taxis in Trafford but this was fiercely disputed by the drivers who said they used it numerous times on a daily basis.

“There were also a number of reservations expressed about the Peugeot E7 and in the end the committee decided to retain the current Conditions of Fitness.”

The meeting heard that the iconic London taxis were seen as a critical benefit to Trafford because of their recognisability as a Hackney carriage which can be hailed and prevents confusion with private hire vehicles.

Other vehicles can be used as private hire vehicles in the borough.

Paul Brent, chairman of the Trafford Taxi Drivers’ and Owners’ Association, said: “It was unanimous in the association that we wanted to stick with the purpose-built vehicle.

“The main reasons are because of the safety aspect, its iconic status and recognisability, and the turning circle.

“Whichever way you look at it, nothing else is made for the job.”

Paul, who runs South Manchester Radio Cabs, added that using the purpose-built vehicles meant that, when a woman was attacked after being picked up by a bogus taxi driver last Christmas, police immediately ruled out all Hackney carriage drivers as suspects because the vehicle description did not match.

Matthew Cheyne, Sales and Marketing Director for Coventry-based LTI Vehicles, said: “We are obviously delighted with the decision in Trafford.

“It means that the standard of taxi is kept high and passengers can be sure of getting home safely if they hail a black cab.

“Though first put together a number of years ago, the decisions in Trafford and London show that the rules that govern which vehicles can and can’t be used as a Hackney carriage are as relevant today as ever.

“We would urge other licensing authorities which do not current employ such rigorous standards to consider adopting them – and those that do to maintain them.”

My opinion is that this decision was predictable. There are very few Authorities that still stipulate the PCO conditions of fitness but many of those who do, will probably retain them until such time the courts or Europe have ruled against the turning circle condition.

Over two years ago I said Allied were pizzing against the wind and they should have gone to court then instead of waiting for the PCO review. Allied have now been presented with a golden opportunity to take Trafford to court and get this sorted out once and for all.

If they win in Trafford, London better have a darn good case as to why they need a vehicle with a 25ft turning circle?

Regards

JD

Nothing that Trafford council say and do would ever surprise me. Without a doubt they are a shower of [edited by admin].

But whereas it's usually the apathy of the local trade that lets councils get away with everything, this time it's a manufactor.

Cab Direct should either put up or shut up. They either want to be a proper firm, or they want to be a small piddly firm content to live on the scraps that LTI leave them.

The choice is there's.

_________________
IDFIMH

I wonder what will happen when the DfT finalises the DDA spec and implement the timetable?

I'm not sure if under that regime an LA could continue to specify a tougher standard than the DDA (ie including the turning circle), but if the DfT spec accomodates the E7 then the PCO spec will start to look even more incongrous.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

A bit rich from the company that rejected the OFT's derestriction recommendation.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

The disabled lobby say some disabled people cannot get into a black cab and prefer a saloon type vehicle, I wonder what the DfT will do to accomodate those? If that be the case what will licensing authorities do to make sure they cater for those particular disabled? In the meantime what does Mr Cheyne suggest as an alternative for those disabled who cannot get into an LTI vehicle?

Regards

JD

I'm a taxi driver in Bath, and I wish the council here would be like Trafford in that respect.

Personally I choose to drive a brand new TXII, which over 5 years is going to cost me almost £40000 with all the interest.

Bath don't have much of a stipulation on which vehicle a driver wants to use, and although there are some nice Mercedes and Passats/Skodas etc. there are also some very old vehicles (L reg).

When tourists from every corner of the globe come to the beautiful city of Bath, the ranks at the station and alongside Bath Abbey present them with an unprofessional shambles of every make and colour of 'mini-cab' you can imagine. Which is a shame as it lets down the look of the city.

(Don't even bother to jump up n down about the min-cab term. I mini-cabbed (legally) in London for many proud years, and still have a great many friends there in that trade. Many of whom would - and do - agree with my statement.)


darth

Private hire?

But it is an interesting point - when the 'informal' DDA consultation was launched almost ten years ago I think there was some indication that mixed WAV/saloon fleets would be acceptable and this would also help some of the disabled.

Of course, while that might be a good argument in terms of a place like Brighton or Gateshead, if the mixed fleet has merit then what about areas that are currently all black cab/or WAV?

But these arguments are often not so much about what's right or wrong but more about vested interests - it's a good argument often used by saloon owners that a mixed fleet is required by the disabled, thus new licenses should be given only to WAVs, when of course it's often more about making sure that they don't have to do wheelchair work and that the more onerous conditions attached to a new license means less vehicles than if there was a level (saloon) playing field (and this may or may not be tangled up to the derestriction issue).

But no doubt the issue is one of those that are holding the whole thing up, so we can only wait and see.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

If there's over 100 taxis I find it hard to believe that they unanimously favour LTI - or does Mr Overton mean the 20 representatives at the meeting when he says "unanimously"? And by 'drivers', he presumably means 'owners', or do they all drive in Trafford?

But if they are unanimous on this then why retain the rule anyway, since relaxing it would make no practical difference?

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Heres how vehemently opposed some cabbies were to the DDA and the prospect of having to buy LTI vehicles. The situation hasn't changed as can be seen by the recent opposition to buying LTI vehicles in those authorities that have stipulated no more saloon vehicles.

Cabbies' M-way blockade threat

From the Telegraph & Argus, first published Friday 27th Nov 1998.

Taxi drivers in Kirklees are threatening to block Britain's busiest motorway in protest over Government proposals concerning wheelchair-using passengers. The Government is planning to make it compulsory for all taxis to be capable of carrying customers in wheelchairs within the next ten years under the Disability Discrimination Act.

But the Kirklees Hackney Carriage Association, which represents 185 drivers across the district, says the proposed legislation will decimate their livelihoods and mean higher fares.

The members are also angry the proposals do not apply to private-hire operators and claim they are being grossly discriminated against.

Association chairman Mohammed Rajah said: "It would cost about £25,000 for a driver to buy a London-style cab adapted to carry a wheelchair. Few of our members can afford this.''

But Terry Warner, chairman of the campaigning organisation Kirklees One Voice, Federation of Disabled People, said: "This legislation is long overdue. Disabled people have been sidelined for long enough.

However, the association is to spearhead a national campaign early next year to protest about the plans. It has already written to Transport Minister Glenda Jackson.

Mr Rajah said: "We are going to hold a rally somewhere like Hyde Park in London after approaching other hackney carriage associations across the country to ask them for their support.

"Some drivers have suggested blocking the M25 and this is an option we will consider if the Government does not listen to us.''

He said Kirklees was already providing an adequate service for disabled passengers because 50 of the district's 250 taxis were wheelchair-accessible.

But he claimed few of the one thousand private-hire vehicles in Kirklees provided the same level of service for the disabled customers.

Mr Warner said: "At busy times the wheelchair-accessible taxis are not always available and our members often have difficulty getting home from meetings or the shops.''

You hit the nail on the head when you said vested interests and that is exactly my point. The argument for retaining saloon type vehicles has been championed by the likes of the NTA and the saloon dominated taxi associations such as Brighton and Gateshead etc. The Government were never going to stipulate one particular type of wheelchair accessible vehicle but will they go for a mixed policy of saloon type swivel chair vehicles, which the majority of owners want? Where does that leave those authorities that have the same policy as Trafford?

I suspect, at the end of the day the Government might pass the buck and leave it up to each local authority to decide for themselves.

Here's a reminder of some past comments made by other subscribers, vested interests or otherwise.

Mr Scanner on 7th Nov 2003 said:


Andy7 8th Nov 2003 said:


Tom Thumb 10th Nov 2003 said:


Yorkie 11th Nov 2003 said:


Andy7 29th Oct 2003 said:


Gateshead Angel 1st Nov 2003 said



Regards

JD

Yes, the DDA itself certainly left open the possibility of mixed fleets, which would of course help to deflect some of the arguments made above.

But the DfT's statement of a couple of years ago seemed to shut down that possibility, or at least didn't explain how LAs could be exempted from the 100% rule - but I always got the impression that the statement was rushed out for the OFT report.

Black cab areas will easily be converted to comply with the DDA spec, and obviously other saloon areas are already only giving new licenses to WAVs, particularly as part of a derestriction process.

In other words it would be the usual 'path of least resistance' approach, which has the added bonus of providing a disabled-friendly mixed fleet.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk