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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:09 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
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Not really sue about the practicalities of all this, but I'm guessing that it's a bad idea to mention the phone at all. Instead, should focus on the having proper control of the vehicle stuff? Ie concentrate on the very low speed, lack of pedestrian access, that no affect on ability to stop etc.

The police have mentioned the phone, so Mr Taxi Driver has to give a defence to it.

Not sure if I expressed myself clearly enough, but perhaps I mean in terms of emphasis?

I mean, no need to say: "I was using my phone in one hand with the engine off whilst in the queue."

Instead, concentrate on the very low speed, very short distance travelled, lack of pedestrians in area, did not impinge on visibility to spot any hazard, blah, blah.

If you're replying to a 'I'm pleading not guilty because' style of question, then presumably you can do that with no or very little mention of the phone itself?

Just seems to take away the emphasis on the phone towards why there was no real hazard involved :idea:


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:36 pm 
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Thank you both: I’ll tweak and send off and see what happens.

Thank you for all your help.

Nikki


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:55 pm 
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BladeS1 wrote:
Thank you both: I’ll tweak and send off and see what happens.

Thank you for all your help.

Nikki

Was going to have a look later on, but I'm sure there's a ton of stuff that could be of use if you just Google 'not having proper control of vehicle', or similar.

But saw this last night, which might give a flavour of some of the arguments. It kind of looks like it wouldn't cover just having a phone in the hand or eating food, say, but would need to show more evidence that driver not in proper control:

Auriga Advocates wrote:
How would the prosecution prove you not in proper control?

The prosecution would have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were not in a position to be in proper control of your vehicle or you did not have a full view of the road ahead.

The police will normally issue fixed penalties as they are usually not disputed. Clients have told us that the police have told them it is an offence to eat something whilst driving, this is not the case. It is all a question of degree in each case. As there is no definition it is each case on its merits and success will depend on the quality of your representation, which is why you should instruct a specialist solicitor.

In our view the prosecution should show that you could not have been in proper control which is extremely difficult to prove unless there was evidence of weaving or swerving or near collision.

Police officers will often use this offence if they have stopped you for using a mobile phone when in fact they cannot prove that you were using the phone but can show you had it in your hand.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 6:00 pm 
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It's also worth pointing out that the courts are currently months behind on trials, and the CPS are being asked to review cases in an effort to reduce the backlog.

Basically a polite way of saying thin out prosecutions that really shouldn't be before the courts.

Maybe, and who knows, this is the kind of case that the CPS will drop.

In short is it really in the public interest to prosecute Mr Taxi Driver based on what we have heard on this thread? :-k

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 5:29 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
It's also worth pointing out that the courts are currently months behind on trials, and the CPS are being asked to review cases in an effort to reduce the backlog.

Basically a polite way of saying thin out prosecutions that really shouldn't be before the courts.

Maybe, and who knows, this is the kind of case that the CPS will drop.

In short is it really in the public interest to prosecute Mr Taxi Driver based on what we have heard on this thread? :-k


Think in the present circumstances,agree that a case of this nature will probably dropped.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:46 pm 
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This explains clearly about offences and mobile phones.

cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic-mobile -phones

Just type in your search bar.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:48 pm 
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Hi

My brother has received a letter to say he has been convicted of an offence (on this thread) and the courts is considering whether you should be disqualified from driving because of the seriousness of the offence or the number of points on your record. He has no points and has a clean licence.

Is this a standard letter before the court gives its outcome?

He has an option for the court to proceed in his absence and they will send him the result. Or select I want to attend court. I wish to give more information to the court and request a hearing date to be set.

It states if you want to tell the court how being disqualified from driving would affected you you must ensure the court receives your response by the 09/09/20.

On the letter he received prior to this to plead guilty or not guilty he plead not guilty and it stated that he would receive a letter with court date and he has had no court date through after he returned the not guilty form to the court. On the single procedure notice on the top right doc it does say court date 29/07/20 but we thought this was a provisional date as he hadn’t even plead guilty or not and it said they would write to him with a date and any dates he couldn’t do if he was to plead guilty.

He is now very worried he’s going to be disqualified when this is his only source of income he doesn’t have any qualifications and therefore has been reliant on driving jobs.

He wrote to the police asking for the prosecution details as advised on this thread and also to the local prosecutor who advised it’s not them he wrote back to both of them at least twice. He has the emails to CPS and only reply was it wasn’t them dealing with it I added the response to this thread when he didn’t hear back from the police he wrote to this email again asking who he should contact and no response.

I honestly cannot believe that having his phone in his hand for less than ten seconds in a taxi queue moving on car forward has resulted in this.

I feel bad as it was me that has pushed him to appeal and not accept the points.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:41 pm 
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Hi
Just to add on the single justice pack it stated court 29/07/20 but on the additional sheet plea options under plead guilty it states if you request a court hearing you will be notified in writing giving you a time and date to attend so he was waiting for this. Also On the your plea section it states plead guilty send me the date of my trial/hearing which he ticked but not received a date.

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:00 pm 
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If he pleaded not guilty he should have been given a trial, there is no other way for the court to process this matter.

So either he made a mistake and pleaded guilty, or the court has made a mistake and has not read his reply documents properly.

So he needs to contact the court on Monday to see who has made a mistake, and in all fairness mistakes do happen.

Bit pointless on giving you advice on anything else until you get clarification from the court.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:12 pm 
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Hi

I have tripled checked the documents we returned I took photos of everything and he definitely ticked not guilty send me the date of my trial/hearing option. I just don’t want them to say it had the court date on the SJP that’s what we should have gone by but on the same documemts it says they’ll send you hearing date which he definitely has not received. I am hoping it’s a error he’s not very good with anything official needs our help in completing forms etc and I know he will be very anxious about any hearing but now that it’s a possible disqualification he’s panicking he absolutely loves being a taxi driver.

Thank you for responding.

Nikki


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:22 am 
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The single justice procedure doesn’t take place in open court so he couldn’t attend even if he wanted to.

It’s basically an admin court with just one magistrate and one legal advisor.

They sift through a mound of cases fining guilty pleas and putting aside not guilty pleas so they can be listed for trial.

As I said ring the court tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:47 pm 
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Thank you will do and will post what they say.

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:48 pm 
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We have contacted hmcts and they have said they didn’t received a response from us hence the conviction letter. We have proof of postage and through Royal Mail track and sign who signed for it. I have the photos of everything we sent with timestamp of 21/5 and the post office receipt 21/5 and it being recieved on 22/05. When we’ve rang the hmcts back to say we’ve got all the evidence they’ve just said get a solicitor and respond to the disqualification ban letter request a court date.

But it’s now a disqualification ban hearing? The letter has an email sy-roadtraffic@justice.gov.uk should we email here as hmcts just said to respond to the disqualification ban letter request a hearing but we think it need to go back a stage.

Thanks

Nikki


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:18 pm 
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Get all of the paperwork and make an index of all everything that has happened in date order.

Take all of that to the court at the date of the summons.

For your peace of mind I would arrange to get some legal advice and representation.

My best advice is to go to a solicitor who’s office is very near to the court as that indicates they are regulars at that court.

The solicitor will be able to tell the court exactly what’s gone wrong in this process, and, should it get to that, put your brothers case in respect of the ‘ exceptional circumstances’ which could persuade the court so that he doesn’t lose his license.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:22 pm 
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It also wouldn’t hurt to send that email to the court telling them what has happened from day 1, and certainly request a personal hearing.

Do it in detail in numbered paragraphs for each stage of this process.

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