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 Post subject: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:37 pm 
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Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:28 am 
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Not if you mean charging £5 for a £4 fare.
But you can say card payment only available on fares of £5 and above - unless the LA say you must take card payment.

Easy way is just to say 'sorry card reader not working' or battery flat/out of paper/network down/left it at home. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:43 am 
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with Izettle ,sum up and square which is what the majority of drivers use it is a percentage anyway there is no minimum commission so what would be the point ?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:57 am 
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edders23 wrote:
with Izettle ,sum up and square which is what the majority of drivers use it is a percentage anyway there is no minimum commission so what would be the point ?



I have to agree with you, Edders. :shock: the minimum payment accepted by square is one pound.

So please explain, “minimum payment” freaks, why do you think it’s ok to add a service charge, which is illegal?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:19 pm 
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rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?

If you mean can you charge £5 for a £3.50 fare then no.

If you mean can you refuse to take card payments below £5 then yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:37 am 
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Sussex wrote:
If you mean can you refuse to take card payments below £5 then yes.

You think so? :-o

Even for rank hires? [-(

I doubt this is about the commission - more to do with simply brooming short runs, and using the card thing as an excuse.

Recall that earlier in the year Milton Keynes decided to make card readers compulsory to stop the problem of using the card reader excuse to effectively bin short runs.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35540

We've discussed this a few times recently. But I suspect it wouldn't be one of the 'any other good reason' which allows drivers to knock back a rank hire.

Don't know about private hire though, but I suspect that would be more to do with the operator's own policy?


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:40 am 
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Quote:
You think so? :-o

Even for rank hires? [-(

Only a few, maybe less than half a dozen, councils mandate credit card machines in their licensed vehicles.

If a person doesn't have a card reader, and the council doesn't mandate one, then I'm not sure what the driver would get into trouble for if he refused a credit card job.

Of course we all detest drivers that refuse very local jobs and use the credit card reader issue as a reason, but legally IMO nothing can be done other than mandate the readers.

So my answer to Mr Rashid was a legal one not a moral one.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:02 am 
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We spent ages looking into the possible benefits verses the problems of using card machines. Some of our drivers were very reluctant, as they were when we decided to go to fixed prices that the customer is given before the journey. In the end we went with the machines and i have to say that from a company point of view, it was the best move we have made this year. Obviously it has had an impact on tips to the drivers.
Due to jobs now being on fixed prices we don't currently have any waiting time on jobs but as the drivers are on hourly pay this does not impact their earnings, the company takes the hit.
The way we work now has cost us a couple of drivers but to be honest they were the ones who didn't declare their income to the tax man or claimed benefits that they shouldn't have claimed and in one case we had reports of the driver charging what he liked at certain times and he also passed our work to his friends. So that was no real loss.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:56 pm 
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rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


Certainly not in a Hackney.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:32 pm 
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x-ray wrote:
rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


Certainly not in a Hackney.

Where in the acts does it say that Hackneys can't set a minimum card payment limit?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:49 pm 
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grandad wrote:
x-ray wrote:
rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


Certainly not in a Hackney.

Where in the acts does it say that Hackneys can't set a minimum card payment limit?

I think there was a degree of ambiguity in the opening question.

In areas that don't have mandatory card machines drivers can set whatever minimum or maximum card payment amounts they like.

I think some are thinking the opening question was based on the actual charge to the customer, not the minimum charge they would allow a customer to pay by card, rather than cash.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:26 pm 
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grandad wrote:
Where in the acts does it say that Hackneys can't set a minimum card payment limit?

Presumably it doesn't, but it's more about the rule of compellability or whatever it's called, ie you need a good reason to knock back a job. Basically, some drivers are using the minimum card job excuse to refuse short runs.

In that regard I'm not wholly convinced by what Sussex is saying [-(

My personal stance is that although I'm not obliged to have a card reader, since I've got one I don't think I can use a minimum payment excuse to basically broom runs I don't particularly want to do O:)

As regards the law, there's obviously no clear guidance or precedent. A grey area, maybe, and one that no council wants to bite the bullet on.

Some have made readers compulsory as a way round the issue, but I think that's just effectively getting rid of any difficulties that would arise as regards actually enforcing a rule making it compulsory for drivers to take short card runs even if readers aren't compulsory.

Of course, just like mandating card readers, it would be easy enough for councils to say that drivers can't set minimum card payment rules, even if they don't want to make readers compulsory, although enforcing such a rule might be another matter, which in turn is maybe why some have made them compulsory to get round the enforcement problem.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some councils have already compelled drivers to take any card run in areas where readers are still optional, but we just haven't heard about it. Here's what X-ray wrote a few months ago, although to what degree this has or has not been incorporated into the formal conditions I'm not sure:

In March 2020, X-ray wrote:
I think we have the same problem up and down the country on all ranks where cards payments aren’t compulsory. We have several drivers here that won’t accept jobs under £10 if it’s on the card. They say there not refusing the job, just the method of payment. The council have issued a statement saying this is basically a refusal of a job and is illegal but until they organise a ‘test’ purchase or receive an official complaint from a passenger they still do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:36 pm 
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grandad wrote:
x-ray wrote:
rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


Certainly not in a Hackney.

Where in the acts does it say that Hackneys can't set a minimum card payment limit?


Hackney charges are set and a table of fares displayed in the vehicle, it is an offence to charge more than the metered fare. (unless you are travelling outside your licensed area and agree a price beforehand)


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:35 am 
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x-ray wrote:
grandad wrote:
x-ray wrote:
rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


Certainly not in a Hackney.

Where in the acts does it say that Hackneys can't set a minimum card payment limit?


Hackney charges are set and a table of fares displayed in the vehicle, it is an offence to charge more than the metered fare. (unless you are travelling outside your licensed area and agree a price beforehand)

The passengers are not being asked to pay more than the metered fare. They are being asked to pay by cash if the fare is below a certain level.
personally, our company have loads of customers who pay by card for the minimum fare of £3.00, we don't have a problem with it. processing charges are so small nowadays that it is not that much of a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum Card Payment
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:09 am 
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grandad wrote:
x-ray wrote:
grandad wrote:
x-ray wrote:
rashid wrote:
Can a Driver set a Minimum Card payment e.g. £5 etc ?


Certainly not in a Hackney.

Where in the acts does it say that Hackneys can't set a minimum card payment limit?


Hackney charges are set and a table of fares displayed in the vehicle, it is an offence to charge more than the metered fare. (unless you are travelling outside your licensed area and agree a price beforehand)

The passengers are not being asked to pay more than the metered fare. They are being asked to pay by cash if the fare is below a certain level.
personally, our company have loads of customers who pay by card for the minimum fare of £3.00, we don't have a problem with it. processing charges are so small nowadays that it is not that much of a problem.


So if the passengers refuses/can’t pay cash, and you refuse the the fare, then you are in breach of your license conditions by refusing the fare without a reasonable excuse. I think your LA would take a dim view of this especially in the current climate.


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