Taxi Driver Online

Again, I'm not so sure, as per what I said above. I've got a book on the Act which I think sheds a bit of light on it, but I'm buggered if I can find it, but I'll have a look later tonight.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with what you say, but I also think there's some mileage in what I'm saying, but without wanting to repeate myself it's a very grey area that I think the consultation botched. The Act seems to be a bit vague and of course some LAs just do their own thing, particulary as there seems to be no case law on the subject.

Thanks for your input 'Fae Fife'

It just goes to show you what a mess the Act is when people like ourselves who I am sure share a common goal & can't really agree on the same intepretation of the law

As I mentioned I have an email from the licensing team at Edinburgh City Council, who I believe are one of the best in Scotland with regards to licensing enforcement

The email is as follows ;

If a vehicle capable of carrying 8 passengers or less is being used for profit or reward the operator (and driver) must be licensed unless:
it is solely being operated on contracts of greater than 24 hours;
it is used solely for wedding and/or funeral work.
For further information I refer you Section 22 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982.

Once again thanks for your input guy's, much appreciated

OK, I’ve found the book (Scottish Civic Government Licensing Law by Andrew Hajducki and Steven Stuart).

As regards the general provisions, they say (I won’t quote all of it):

A resolution may cover the whole any part of the geographical area covered by he LA and thus may take into account demographic factors – eg limiting the licensing requirements to the urban or suburban areas within the area of an authority…

A resolution may cover all or any part of an activity specified in the Act…thus a window cleaner’s license may be required only for, say, domestic premises.

The bit that you rely on is as follows, and this is from the Act, not the commentary:



The commentary says:



Despite what the commentary says, I suppose 9(4) could be read as saying that as long as you pass a resolution to license all four of the hire care licenses then that could still mean that you could limit the scope of these licenses as in the window cleaner example above.

It might be a bit like saying that if you license window cleaners then you also have to license market operators and street traders, but then there would be nothing to stop you limiting there scope as per the window cleaner example.

Of course, if you can do that then it could be argued that it’s all a bit pointless, but if you can exclude certain window cleaners then there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be able to exclude certain PH operators and drivers.

A later commentary by the authors lends some support for this view, I think. They say:

A resolution in terms of section 9 [ie the above] must be passed…before taxi and PH operators require licenses, and such a resolution can can specify the areas or particular types of activity for which licenses will be required – eg limiting the requirements for licenses to the City of Perth or having a system of separate airport taxi licenses such as that which exists in Edinburgh [not now!]. However, if a licensing authority makes a resolution to introduce taxi licensing, then they must license and regulate both taxis and private hire cars since, in essence, the two types of vehicle provide a similar service.

Obviously there seems to be a bit of a contradiction here, but the only explanation seems to be what I said earlier.

But at least this would be consistent with what is actually happening on the ground, and what the Executive said. However, it woudn't be surprsing if what they are really saying is that councils were ingoring the law in effect, but just saying it in a roundabout way. And of course Hadjucki and Stuart could be wrong, and until the courts clarify the matter we just have to take it as given. Another problem is that a legal challenge is unlikely, and it certainly won't be me!!!

Sorry, I meant the Act to be in italics and the commentary in bold, but some of the commentary is in quote mode. And I didn't even manage the italics at all

Thanks for your input Mr Fae Fife, very informative

Cheers

Or you could be a council chauffeur,they buy the car suit and boot the driver give him a pension,a shed load of o/t a backup driver,a garage,car cleaning and laundry allowence,29 days holidays a year and pay you to sit at home ,whilst his/her lordship attends a civic function all you have to do is return and take them home .been doing this since 1992.but alas the good times have ended and my boss does the driving himself,or gets a taxi.just waiting for the next local government elections to see if we get a none driver as a council provost.

I hope the vehicle you drive is wheelchair accessible, or is it one rule for the bigwigs and one rule for those in their domain.

Of course it is!

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

HI Guys

I have been reading this post on Chauffeur & Private Hire and to be honest reading some of the replies I have been lead to believe that this is a wind up. I mean tcabbie you think there is no difference (was that a serious reply).


What is the law concerning Private Hire in Scotland (England has slight different laws);
A private hire vehicle can cover any type of service but it MUST be booked in advance.


What is the law concerning Chauffeur Drive in Scotland (England has slight different laws);
For a chauffeur drive the said vehicle has to be contracted out for a minimum of 24 hours unless it is for a wedding or funeral.
This does not mean the said chauffeur vehicle can pick a customer up and drop them in a 20 minute journey and then pick them back up 24 hours later while performing more transfer services with other people within that 24 hours.
If the vehicle is picking up passengers that are for hires which will be less than 24 hour then said vehicle MUST be a licensed by the Local authority as a Private Hire vehicle

ANY CHAUFFEUR COMPANY that picks up a passenger to transfer for a journey which is within 24 hours from A to B (other than a wedding or funeral) is performing an illegal act.

Concerning the Insurance;
All of the Chauffeur Insurance companies cover insurance for all chauffeur drive in the whole UK but obviously the rules change from country to country and county to county.
IF a chauffeur company picks a passenger up, at lets say Glasgow Airport, to transfer the passenger to Gleneagles but on the way has an accident.
THAT VEHICLE WILL NOT BE COVERED BY THE INSURANCE COMPANY.
They will also (AT THEIR DISCRETION) pay for injury to the passenger.
This is from 3 of the biggest Chauffeur Insurance companies in the UK and I have asked them all as I have my own Chauffeur Insurance.
This could mean that the passenger themselves with have to privately sue the Chauffeur company for injury and or damage.


If anyone has a problem with the licensing authority and a chauffeur drive then they should put in a complaint that Chauffeur driver is playing illegally picking up passengers for small hires. If you send in written complaint (registered) then the council will have to respond. If they do not and then a Chauffeur drive has an accident with one of these passengers then the s*~t will hit the fan and A few people in certain offices will lose their jobs.

I’m sure and hope there will be a few replies to my

All the best guys

Taxi-truth

Well put Mr Taxi-truth

So now were onto limo hire how does the insurance cover work when the limo takes out stag parties etc drops them of for a few hours then picks them up drops them at there destinations[ home's] Am asking this as my niece hired a limo for a birthday surprise for her pal last saturday night. She said it had to swerve and brake hard to avoid an accident there were 10 of them they went flying everywere in this limo banging into each other some had cut heads others landed up the other side of the limo shaken. The driver said he was sorry he had to swerve hard across the road. Well my problem is when i asked why weren't you all wearing seat belts they said there were none. If that is true and limos are carrying up to 14 people then surely it should come under a psv licence. This one am taking up with department of transport.

HI Bigyin

It is the usual with local authorities to cover their eyes to let things slip through (bending rules) until something or someone makes an issue of it.

The situation is This Limo company (as far as im lead to believe) can only have one type of Insurance which is Chauffeur Insuarance. Again this insurance will only cover hires that are for 24 hours or over. This means they are not plated by the local authority as a private hire then they will be Chauffeur drive and all Insurances througout the Uk will be the Same.

This company MUST have some kind of Insurance cover to ply their trade (IS it the correct Insurance or and they plying their trade within the remit of their Insurance).


The Evening times did a big spread about a year ago about Limos (party hire) stating that they were illegal because they could only operate with Chauffeur Insurance but then they never took it any further ( I WONDER WHY)

I would take it up with the Local Authority of the area and also if there is no joy then your local M.P.

All the Best

Taxi-truth

Hi there Big Yin

I am sorry to here about your niece's incident with the limo

First of all the limo was not insured as it was carrying more than 8 passengers, I would contact the Police HQ at Helen Street over this immediately. Ask to speak to someone at the traffic dept. which will probably be a different number or they can transfer you.

As for the cuts etc. hopefully the victims visited a Doctor & took some pictures. I would contact the Limo operator & ask for the details of his insurers & enquire about damages

Last summer Strathclyde Police lanched an apparent 'crackdown' on unlicensed private hire operators such as limos which promised the, as of last August, all unlicensed operators would be prosecuted. This forced local authorities in the area such as Glasgow City, Renfrewshire & Inverclyde to get there act in order & luck at this problem & organise some sort of licensing regime for 'special event' private hire as Edinburgh City council calls them.

This would allow the many companies who do take care of there vehicles & who also want to operate whithin the law to do so. One operator that springs to mind is the Crazy Fire Engine based in Renfrewshire who wants to be licensed but was told yearsago by that [edited by admin] licensing dept. that he didn't need one.

It is now January & these local councils are still not any further forward in establishing some sort of licing regime & it will. unfortunately, take a fatal accident to kick them up the backside as, in the meantime, Strathclyde Police have said they will refrain from enforcement action until they do.

Having said that any vehicle which carrys more than 8 passengers falls under the remit of the Traffic Commisioner & I'm sure he will be more proactive with regards to law breaking

Hi Guys, sorry haven't been on for a while but have been reading some of the posts..
This Chauffeur thing!!.

1 the law is a very grey area and nothing is set in stone, one local council bylaw may well be offset by european law. The Traffic commissioners have licenced a couple of limo firms I think as an experiment but dont think the TC will monitor it too close, they are far more interested in badgering the people that are licensed as with VOSA. I'm sure you all see taxi's or ph doing things they shouldn't every day but the enforcement officers from whatever dept dont seem blessed with the same eyesight as us.

Now the real question, what is the difference. Here is my version of a chauffeur service to the airport. (we are licensed by the the TC as a PSV operator running various sizes of vehicles).
1 Turn up on time ( about 3 or 4 mins earlier than booked)
2 Always neatly dressed in uniform even when taking our own employees or family to the airport, the casual observer does not know who your passengers are!!.
3 Knock on the door and offer a pleasant greeting, i.e. good morning/afternoon etc.
4 Assist with luggage, not always down steps etc you should be aware of h & s issues but you should always load the luggage in the vehicle not just stand at the side and let the customer do it, after all you are responsible for any insecure load, we do not however handle luggage or trolleys inside the terminal, you never know who may be trying to smuggle anything.
5 Vehicle always clean, whilst this may not be possible on the outside during some weather conditions, there is not excuse for a dirty interior and dirty windows with several days grime.
6 Open the doors for customers and make sure they are closed properly before you get in and drive off.

Just a few thoughts which may not be possible on all pickups for taxi work but hey guys this is your living and the best customer is a repeat customer.

Good luck lads and please remember not all airport transfer people are bad. We have no interest at all in short journey's but we are willing to sit at the airport for a couple of hours on a Friday/Saturday night and I dont think you would want too.

Hello Mr Truth

I was wondering what you thought of what I said further up the thread about councils not being obliged by the Act to license certain categories of vehicles that they themselves can define - any mileage in that?

Hi Fae Fife
Thanks for your reply

I suppose I haven't given it much thought as I havent really looked into the matter concering the council not acting.
All I know is that these vehicles are taking passengers on single short journies under 24 hours and they are NOT covered by the Insurance.
This is the True with ALL CHAUFFEUR Insurance in Scotland.

I have to admit someone must take the blame for this.
So Im sure theere will be somewhere where the Council is to blame as it is their job to make are transport services run smoothly.
If they dont, well im selling my taxi licences and gonna buy a few Mercs and run a chauffeur company.