Taxi Driver Online

'We need our taxi services restored in Grantham'

Regarding the recent article about the new restrictions placed on taxi services and the effect this having.

I was stranded at Grantham train station Sunday evening. Trains are much later due to maintenance work. No taxis outside the station. I made 16 calls to various taxi companies, 15 no responses, one didn’t want to do it, out of town only runs.

Walking at midnight from Grantham train station to New Beacon Road through poorly or unlit roads is not an option.

I was very lucky that a member of the platform staff took me home. I was panicking. I sincerely thank him for that.

I have emailed our MP Gareth Davies, asking him to meet with our taxi reps and help resolve this crisis.

Many elderly and disabled residents rely heavily on our taxi services. Public transport being poor and unreliable, we need our taxi services restored.

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IDFIMH

Silly o'clock on a Sunday night.

The reason there were no cabs available is that drivers didn't want to sit around waiting hours for a £5 job, if they actually got one at all.

Why not pre-book one? Or are all those offices closed.

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IDFIMH

Grantham never got the "Asian invasion" so firms relied on eastern European driver and local drivers

late nights is something the Asians are happy to do but not the others added to which is the extremely high cost of vehicles, plates and badges relative to low fares there's a reason the number of licensed vehicles in South Kesteven is falling

the walk from the station to new beacon road wouldn't go through any dodgy areas and is only 15 minutes at a reasonable pace and passes the main town centre rank

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lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

No Taxis outside probably because there is no incentive be there.

Surge pricing would help solve this.

But then the customer would probably complain about the price.

You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid.

Question?

Is there a driver shortage in Grantham?

No.

And there isn’t a driver shortage anywhere.

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Former taxi driver

Perhaps I should elucidate.

There is not a shortage of taxi drivers anywhere. A bold statement, it is true. What there is, is a surfeit of licensed vehicles whose owners are unable to find a muppet to rent vehicles off them. There are two ways to make money in the taxi (and ph) trade. One is to own vehicles, and the other is to drive a vehicle. ( you can only drive one at a time, obviously) when a taxi proprietor owns more than one, he or she is going to need to rent the other out. He doesn’t give a tinkers cuss whether the driver takes enough to make a decent living, all he is interested in is collecting the “rent” for that vehicle, he will have no connection at all with the passengers that vehicle carries, only interested in the rent collection. The week the driver (muppet) fails to pay the rent, that vehicle is snatched back, and the owner finds another muppet. That is the model at least for hackney carriage. With ph, the operator finds fares for the driver, it is true, to an extent ( some multi ph owners are not operators) but the no rent no drive still applies. So at the moment, the “problem” is a surplus of vehicles, not a shortage of drivers.
And my heart bleeds for operators are looking out the window at one ,two, or more vehicles they are unable to collect a rent from.

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Former taxi driver

Depends on your point of view.

How do you measure/assess if there is a shortage?

If we go by the latest data the licensed numbers declined by 6% up-to June 2021. But that does not help us.

Even if the decline was 50% it still does not tell us anything more. That could just be a consequence of low demand and the market is reaching an equilibrium.

What about the government? They are not screaming from the rooftops.

The councils' are not either.

I will say this.

I have first hand experience of locally being unable to get a cab. Had to get the bus. This in a major city with 3 major firms. One of them used to be one of the biggest PH firms in the country.

Many other people have told me the same thing with their own personal experience.

It was in the local news about a lot of local drivers leaving the trade to work with Deliveroo etc. Operators are saying that their numbers are down significantly too.

There is definitely a shortage in my local area.

And just because there is low demand/no work elsewhere that does not necessarily mean there is no shortage in any other area either. A consequence of people struggling to get cabs is that they change their behaviour. They get frustrated and as a result will find alternatives or go out less or not at all.

This over time lowers demand and exacerbates the problem.

The thinking that "there are less drivers on the road so I will make more money" is a fallacy that does not hold any weight. It makes it worse. Drivers have been forced out of the market due to both over regulation and operators business models. Not via supply and demand. I believe I will be proven correct over time.

I agree with you about the operators. I don't feel sorry for them either. I couldn't care less about the majority of them.

It's their own faults.

Depends who you ask.

The fleet owners in Grantham were moaning about a shortage before Christmas, but what's new, apart from the fact that some drivers have moved on to delivering parcels and pizzas.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37812&p=415301

And the person who arrived at the station obviously thinks there's a shortage, too.

Which reminds me of last night at our nearest station, which is five miles from town. The last train arrives at half past midnight, and the train before that is an hour earlier at 2330.

I was there when the last train arrived last night, and it was about fifteen minutes away when I arrived. There were two other taxis on the rank.

Train came in, probably about a dozen people alighted, maybe four left in cars, and maybe eight waited for the last bus.

There's a bus just after the last train, but the train was a few minutes late, so the bus had gone.

The last bus was due at about 0045, so I decided to wait, just in case it didn't turn up, or some of the punters changed their mind and got a taxi rather than wait for the bus.

Then the bus arrived, so no taxi got a fare. I'd waited half an hour in total, so between the three taxi drivers we must have waited at least an hour and a half in total. In fact, who knows, the driver at the front could have been there 90 minutes himself.

Anyway, once-upon-a-time the last bus had left before the last train, because of the lateness of the train. So some people wanted a taxi, but there were none there

A local councillor (who's a public transport zealot) got wind of this, and kicked up a stink, and there was an article in the local paper about these people being in danger etc

Danger my backside. Over the years me and other drivers have spent hundreds of hours there on our own, with cash etc in an unlocked car. Then there's the punters...

And over the years I've walked miles and miles close to the rank while there on my own, because the toilets are closed after 8pm

So for a group of people the danger was negligible, and if they thought they were in danger, somehow I don't think they'd last long as a taxi driver

Of course, the councillor was just trying to promote public transport (she's best known for promoting the extension of the rail network, which would effectively close the taxi rank), and demonise the trade at the same time.

In fact, prior to that incident there was only one bus after the last train, but after that an even later bus was introduced, so people arriving by train have two bites at the last bus cherry

But even on the night of that particular incident there would have been maybe twenty taxis in town ranking up, so no real 'shortage', and just that the cars were all in the wrong place as far as the station was concerned.

And any of the taxis in town would have been out to the station like a shot if they'd know there was a fare there back into town - it's an easy £18 at least for a trip of less than ten minutes.

And this was late Saturday, early Sunday, so I'm surprised the people stranded at the station couldn't flag a passing taxi easily enough. There's normally one passing every few minutes at least at that time of the week.

But, of course, it wasn't really about that. It was more about grossly exaggerated danger, and grossly exaggerated inconvenience to make the case for more public transport and to demonise the taxi trade at the same time.

And, coming back to last night, suppose us three drivers had left the station when the punters all went for the last bus, but that bus hadn't arrived when it was due ten minutes later?

Of course, they'd have no doubt been in grave danger, and there'd be shortage of those irresponsible taxi drivers.

But in fact we taxi drivers ended up waiting a couple of hours between us. For nothing. And then five miles back into town to join the queue for the late night drunks.

So shortages are essentially in the eye of the beholder.

(And I wouldn't have even been at the station at all last night except for the fact that I was lucky enough to get a fare out that way, and on a lucky night I might have gotten one back in after twenty minutes or so. But that certainly didn't happen last night.)

(And the councillor who has spent a lifetime banging the drum for public transport and making things more difficult for taxi drivers has also been a licensing councillor for 20-something years. Conflict of interest, much?)

So you had to get a bus because you couldn’t get a taxi. OK.

I have on many occasions had taxi passengers telling me they were getting a taxi because they couldn’t get a bus. Bus services cancelled due to a lack of bus drivers. How ironic.

There are no bus services at all on a Saturday in Boston Lincolnshire due to driver shortages.

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Former taxi driver

because they all went back to Latvia

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lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

For what it's worth, was looking back at the article I mentioned earlier about the 'shortage' of taxis at our station. It happened more than five years ago.

Maybe a bit micro-local, but also illustrative of some 'bigger picture' stuff, in my opinion at least.

For a start, whether this particular councillor is best placed to also be on the comittee regulating the trade

And I could say *lots* more, but maybe best not


Anger as passengers bound for St Andrews left stranded late at night

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/busines ... -at-night/


Image: DC Thomson

Calls have been made for a joined-up transport agreement at Leuchars after delayed rail passengers were left stranded in the early hours of the morning.

Former councillor Jane Ann Liston was among a number of people who got off the last train from Edinburgh at Leuchars, intending to travel on to St Andrews by bus.

But when the train was late the bus they thought would wait for them just after midnight had already left the deserted station, where staff had locked up and gone home.

Ms Liston pedalled home on her folding bicycle while a group of six or seven young people, thought to be students, were left standing at the station.

Scotrail said those with PlusBus tickets for St Andrews would have been able to request alternative transport through its station help-points.

However Ms Liston said she believed there was a long-standing agreement that Scotrail would alert Stagecoach East Scotland to the train’s estimated arrival time so that the bus could wait for passengers.

She said: “I thought this problem had been solved long ago, but apparently not.”

When the last train from Edinburgh arrived 15 minutes late at the station which serves St Andrews at 12.40am on Sunday, Ms Liston said there was no sign of either the 94, which departs at 12.29am nor the 12.40am 42 bus.

She said: “About a dozen passengers disembarked. Two or three were collected by car-drivers waiting on the platform, another had apparently pre-booked the single taxi which was waiting and went off in it, leaving six or seven young people plus myself.

“I was able to give the young people, who were standing disconsolately in the bus shelter apparently unsure of what to do, the number of a taxi firm before I unfolded my Brompton and cycled the five and two-thirds miles home to St Andrews.

“There are issues of passenger safety here, particularly if passengers cannot contact a taxi, if they have poor signal or no mobile, or perhaps cannot afford one, to get home, and taxis late on a Saturday night can be difficult to get.

“I fear that if passengers feel they cannot rely upon this bus connection, they are less likely to use public transport and instead use cars, the opposite of what I thought we were trying to encourage.”

A ScotRail spokesman said: “If customers miss their last connection due to delays or cancellations, we will source alternative transport to allow them to complete their onward journey.

“Passengers should use station help-points, which are manned 24-hours per day, when there is no staff present at the station.”

A spokesperson for Stagecoach East Scotland said: “Unfortunately there is no official agreement between Stagecoach and Leuchars rail station to guarantee a connection between trains and our services.

“We do not advertise a guaranteed connection, however in some cases our drivers that serve the rail station will wait for the train out of courtesy if they see it approach.”

Funny how when you read things like this several years later, you realise that your recollection isn't quite what you thought it was

Nothing fundamental, mind. Just that I'd forgotten that the good councillor was actually on the late train, but had her fold-up bike with her

I'd also forgotten that there were actually two buses to St Andrews after the last train even back then. I thought the second bus was introduced some time after the incident in the article

And I also thought she had more of a dig at the taxi trade, but maybe not, but perhaps I'm a bit biased, and others are in a better position to judge.

On the other hand, my recollection was that the passengers' 'anger' had been channeled via the councillor, who then contacted the press (which is why I'd forgotten she was actually on the train).

But note there's no evidence here that the passengers had actually complained, and the 'anger' has been generated purely by the councillor

(Note also that the article describes her as a 'former councillor'. Again, that wasn't my recollection, but she certainly did stand down for one term, and I thought it was a bit earlier than this incident, but maybe not. But pretty sure she's been a councillor for at least twenty years in total, and a licensing councillor to boot.)


Safety issues my backside. A group of half a dozen young people (very probably students) out at the station simply isn't a safety issue, unless you're being very selective and disproportionate about 'safety'. It's more about propaganda than substantive safety.

As for taxi affordability, guess who's on the licensing committee that's set the second highest fare in Scotland?

Poor mobile signal? Doubt if there's a better place in the area for mobile signals. My main account is Tesco/o2, and it's a solid five bars. Ditto my back up with 3. The EE and Vodafone signals are also strong, at least when I checked the coverage maps earlier.

Difficult to get taxis late on Saturday night? Probably at least 20-30 vacant taxis in town at that time, and probably a few at the two taxi offices within a couple of minutes of the station. And I'd guess it would be about the easiest time of the week to flag a passing taxi. The station is just off the main St Andrews to Dundee road. If I'd been passing, would have noticed any people waiting at the station, and would have been in there like a shot. As would any other driver in the area (and we're almost all public hire).

So wouldn't be surprised if they actually got a taxi fairly quickly. Or ten minutes maximum if they phoned one to come out from town.

Which is maybe why the article was simply the councillor's view, and not that of the waiting passengers. And she was off like a shot on her bike. I mean, it's so dangerous at the station that a 60-year-old woman is cycling from there into town nearly six miles away, on her own, at 1am and in the pitch black

One of the worst things that councillors can do, actually anyone can do, is adopt or change policy based on one incident.

Anomalies and one-offs happen all the time, it doesn't mean that things need to change, just that policies need to be flexible.

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IDFIMH