Taxi Driver Online

This makes it sound like every trip will require money up front, but of course that's unlikely.

And whether this will make a lot of difference on the ground, who knows? There's no doubt many money up front requests as it is, so to what extent this will increase them isn't clear.

Of course, it may help deter any resentment or aggression from punters but, on the other hand, will many punters actually be aware of the council's policy here? Doubtful.


Hyndburn taxi drivers to ask for fares up front

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... res-front/

TAXI drivers in a borough are to ask for upfront payment in future because of an increase in the number of passengers declining to settle their fares after the journey.

Hyndburn council has agreed to a request from firms to permit requests for fares to be settled before travel to help keep their essential services running.

It follows a growing number of passengers running off without paying leaving drivers short of cash during the current cost of living crisis.

The authority is now making the change public and asking passengers not to be offended.

Cllr Joyce Plummer, Hyndburn Council's licensing boss, said: “The request for upfront fares going forward is in response to an increasing number of people leaving the taxi after their journey without paying.

"It is very unfortunate this needs to happen.

"I am urging people to not be offended if this is requested of them and understand that this is a necessity to protect local businesses and keep the vital taxi services in our borough running.

"Taking off without paying known as 'bilking' is a criminal offence.

"However more often than not the perpetrators are not apprehended, and therefore no payment is made to the driver.

“We fully support taxi drivers in putting measures in place to prevent these crimes taking place and protecting their income, especially during the current cost of living crisis which we are all navigating.

"I hope the people of Hyndburn will join me in supporting this change.”

Maybe I should whisper this but I'm not sure that is 100% legal.

I think the council should have just turned a blind eye to drivers doing it.

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IDFIMH

Maybe I should shout, it's perfectly legal, but you have to ensure that change due is given.

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Chris The Fish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdlyi5mc ... re=related

Will definitely be legal.

You pay for many services in the UK before the social contract is completed.

Paying for using the bus service before you reach your destination as an example.

Cinema is another one.

It's at the drivers discretion but the councils should encourage or make clear that licensed drivers have the right to ask for money in advance.

However, it's become accepted custom in the industry for customers to pay at the end of the journey so a difficult one to implement and change prior habits.

Will probably not gather any steam this one.

Legally it's probably a bit of a grey area, but I'm inclined to agree with Chris and Rebel, or at least there's no reason I can see that it's specifically and patently illegal.

(Disagree with Mr Rebel about up-front payment to the extent that while it's maybe the norm in some sectors, in others it obviously isn't, such as buying food in a restaurant, or paying for professional services like a lawyer or accountant. Or even buying fuel

And, as regards HCs in particular, it's very relevant that the fare is generally metered, and thus the exact sum won't be known in advance - if I do ask for money up front, it's generally on fixed, agreed, off-meter longer runs.

Of course, to a degree this can be modified. For example, it's maybe 20 years since I've bought food in McDonald's, but as I recall it you would pay for the food in advance. Likewise, at fuel stations where card payments at the pump are an option (or the only option in the middle of the night), then I think the payment is effectively taken in advance of the fuel being dispensed.)

But, again, it's legally a grey area, and that's why I used the word 'normalised' in the thread title, rather than something like 'legalise' or 'mandatory'.

And, for the record, below is the entirety of the council's news release (rehashed in its entirety in the press article above, so not really worth reading again). But it's maybe instructive that it completely avoids any talk of legalities, conditions of licence, whether it's mandatory or not, or whatever.

So it's obviously something issued by the council to help normalise or legitimise up front payment requests, to help deter any aggro.

But highly unlikely that money up front will become the norm in Hyndburn, and similarly unlikely that the council's notice will have any significant substantive effect.

On the other hand, the council's intention here is perhaps more obvious. But good intentions are often simply just that.

As I said above, this is the council's press release, and just for the record. But underlines maybe that it's more about 'soft' persuasion and influence rather than 'hard' law and compulsion.


Taxi drivers to ask for upfront payment

https://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/news/taxi ... t-payment/

Hyndburn residents are being notified that local taxi organisations will be asking for upfront fare payment to help keep their essential services running.

Cllr Joyce Plummer, portfolio holder for Licensing at Hyndburn Borough Council, said:

“The request for upfront fares going forward is in response to an increasing number of people leaving the taxi after their journey without paying. It is very unfortunate this needs to happen. I am urging people to not be offended if this is requested of them and understand that this is a necessity to protect local businesses and keep the vital taxi services in our borough running.”

Taking off without paying known as ‘bilking’ is a criminal offence, however more often than not the perpetrators are not apprehended, and therefore no payment is made to the driver.

“We fully support taxi drivers in putting measures in place to prevent these crimes taking place and protecting their income, especially during the current cost of living crisis which we are all navigating. I hope the people of Hyndburn will join me in supporting this change.”

I think it's the wording of the request that matters.

If a driver asks for full payment upfront for a job within the licensing area, then I think that's outside of the law.

If a driver asks for a deposit, then I think that could be viewed as a reasonable request, even if the deposit is around the same value as the driver estimates what the total fare could be.

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IDFIMH

Being so close to North Wales where finding a good phone signal can be tricky, especially to some of the smaller villages. If a customer is paying by card it’s advisable to work the fare out, (it’s easy enough £2.10 per mile T1 and £2.40 T2) and take payment before you set off.

Good point there, X-ray, about up-front card payments.

Haven't done it often but certainly once or twice. And maybe used the signal/reader reliability thing as a pretence for getting paid upfront without causing offence

The only place we encounter problems like that is, believe it or not, at Gatwick Airport.

The drop-off at Gatwick South is underneath the multi-story car park, i.e. about 7 floors of solid concrete.

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IDFIMH

We sometimes have a problem when dropping customers off at the racecourse (The Roodee) on a race day. Rumour has it that mobile phone signals are ‘jammed’ on a race day to stop punters putting bets on using their phone and have to use the onsite bookies. I’m dubious of this. The Roodee is in a natural bowl (a large depression in the ground, in fact, it was a harbour in Roman times!) back in 1989 our regiment (The Cheshires) celebrated our Tercentenary at the Roodee and a fortnight before, the whole course was fenced off and searched for explosive devices, including metal detectors in case the IRA planted/buried a timebomb , knowing our colonel in chief and now our king, was attending. We then had to guard the course until the event. To our amusement, our signal guys could not get a signal back to our barracks two miles away! Eventually our CO had to bring his mobile phone (the size of car battery) and even then we couldn’t always get a signal back to base.