Taxi Driver Online

Well this is quite interesting. So they've largely destroyed black cab plate values, apparently leaving some drivers with a pile of debt against a largely worthless asset?

And now they're replicating the whole thing in the PH sector??


Rejected Glasgow private hire driver confronts councillors about 'over-provision'

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glas ... r-29400493

A number of applications for private hire licences were rejected on Thursday, with one driver asking why they had even been allowed to apply.

A frustrated driver has confronted Glasgow’s licensing committee on its over-provision policy as more private hire car licences were rejected.

Omar Mohammed appeared before councillors on Thursday, June 20 to request a private hire car licence for three years and questioned the local authority’s system for processing applications.

The cost of applying for a three-year private hire car licence is £483 - and must be paid whether the application is successful or not.

Mr Mohammed advised the committee that because his application had been accepted by Glasgow City Council he did not think the over provision limit - which doesn’t allow more than 3450 private hire car licences operating in Glasgow - had been met.

He said: “When I applied for my licence online it did not say there was an over-provision and I just assumed that the over-provision had not been met.

“You must know how many taxis are on the road and when the application went through I assumed the limit had not been met.

“I read that from June 1 there would be 350 taxis side lined because they did not meet the LEZ requirements and that is another reason why I believe you should consider my application.”

Chairman councillor Sean Ferguson explained that the committee could not stop an application from being made.

Councillor Ferguson said: “We can’t stop people applying for consideration. There are people leaving the system - they come and go.”

Mr Mohammed continued: “You said [earlier in the meeting] there was going to be a review. What will happen to all the applicants that are denied - will they have to apply again?”

Councillor Ferguson responded: “In the event that you are not granted [a licence] you can apply again but you have to wait for 12 months before you can apply again and go through this process.”

During the meeting two other private hire car drivers had their application for a private hire car licence refused.

Korede Adebisi, who had been a driver since 2019 for GlasGO Cabs and Mohammad Azod Azad an Uber driver both had their applications denied.

During the meeting when asked why the committee should go against the council’s policy Mr Adebisi said he was a competent driver who prioritised the safety of his customers as well as the city.

He said: “I display myself in a professional manner and make sure all my passengers feel comforted in my care.

“I identify the needs of my passengers and deliver a quality service and I am able to solve unexpected problems.

“I am an exceptional private hire car driver. I know the landmarks of the city and I respect my passengers.”

Mohammad Azod Azad, who had previously worked as a debt collector before becoming an Uber driver, said he was very satisfied with his work.

He added: “I want my own plate because I have a new car. If you give me a chance I can be a great driver.

“I have been working for Uber for one year and before that I was a debt collector for three and a half years.

“I am very satisfied as a driver and I would like to be one not just right now but for a long time.”

At first sight, it does look like these applicants gave the council £483 for nothing (alongside 30-odd others at the last meeting).

Actually, all applicants are made aware of the over-provision policy and plate limits when they apply. Either they didn't read the info or decided to chance it anyway.

Still a nice £17k-ish earner for the council.

Absolutely farcical that a driver has to pay before an application is decided, I’m also assuming that they have to buy a car and insure it.

The application shouldn’t proceed if the applicant has no chance of success, and/or the fee should be refundable.

Clueless council, with clueless policies enforced by councillors and officials who don’t give a dam.

Shame on them.

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IDFIMH

Well there's lots that could be said about this, Mr XH588 (quite apart from refusing drivers a plate who would be granted or have been granted a badge anyway, while there are apparently fleet holders in Glasgow with 100+ PHC plates? ).

But just looking at the GCC page rings alarm bells as regards that kind of thing - I've been looking into these things for nearly 30 years now, and can string a few words together. Yet a lot of the stuff in the link below below needs very careful reading, and even then is, in my opinion, confusing legal obfuscation.

And, for example, combine this with what Sussex said about the language barrier in court, and it's a recipe for confusion. One example, maybe, is that it reads like plates may be handed in, and will be reallocated. So maybe the applicants are taking a punt on that.

I recall that when our HC numbers here were first capped, plates were still being handed in occassionaly, because there was no real market for them at that time. And one driver I knew quite well had bought a car which he intended getting a plate for. He claimed the council had told him one thing about how handed in plates would be reallocated, but apparently a few went, er, elsewhere, and he ended up selling the car and losing thousands.

I also remember applying for an HC plate in Dundee, and they'd tell you that you'd go on a waiting list. (Although, to be fair, they didn't take any money from you, or require you to specify a car.)

(And such was the attitude of some people I'd come across in the trade, I was even very wary about even applying for a plate, just in case anyone got to know about it )

But in my naivety, I assumed everything was above board. But along came the Marr brothers (who owned Dundee FC at the time, as well as numerous pubs and clubs), and applied for 71 HC plates (never worked out why it was 71), and it turned out the council hadn't followed the correct procedures (actually based on the Coyle v Glasgow Council case), and they got the 71 plates, while the like of me who just wanted one were left in the lurch.

(And, while all this is kind of ancient history now, back then in Dundee you couldn't buy a plate - you either rented a plated car, or rented a plate illegally.)

So all that kind of stuff is why I never trusted the system as regards this kind of stuff, and why I suspect the PH plate applicants are maybe wasting money applying into a process they don't really understand.

And could write a lot more about the stuff on GCC's website, but really can't be bothered - like the applications, just a waste of time on here, although it doesn't actually cost me any money to witter on on here

(You need to click on the overprovision Policy section below to read the stuff, and there's a further link there to more, er, stuff. I mean, 'rebuttable presumptions' and all that kind of thing )

https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/article/1841 ... e-Hire-Car

It’s been niggling me for a while as to who Glasgow licensing remind me of, and sitting in a bar far from home it’s come to me.

They are, without a doubt, the 2024 equivalent of the 2000-2020 Post Office Limited.

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IDFIMH

Think you can apply for a Glasgow PHC plate before buying a vehicle - you just accept that it will need to be an approved type.

I'm guessing but maybe there's been a pile-on of applications as PHC plates got near the cap and/or the LEZ hit both HCs and PHCs? These refusals could be the ones who left it a bit late or were gambling that some plate holders would have quit by the time it was processed. It doesn't seem like a particularly efficient or transparent system all the same.

Omar Mohammed's argument that he should get a PHC plate because non-LEZ HCs were going off the road doesn't really cut it for me.

I daresay the truth's somewhere in the middle.

Yes, there's probably a bit of truth from both sides of the argument.

But I took Omar Mohammed's argument to mean that if hundreds of HCs were disappearing because of LEZ then that should change the overprovision status - makes sense, I suppose, because significantly fewer HCs should increase demand for PH services, presumably.

But it's all a nonsense anyway, in rational terms at least.

I mean, according to the 'experts', there were c. 1,420 HCs for years and years, and thus supply has remained the same. But, of course, even before lockdown the number of drivers reduced from about 3,000 to 2,000, therefore...

By the same token, they could grant a couple of thousand more PH badges, and end up with lots of cars double-shifted. But according to the figures the supply remains the same

And, of course, the experts do acknowledge that sort of thing at times, by saying that the problem is not enough drivers rather than vehicles. But to my mind that means the vehicle numbers are totally meaningless, so they're undermining their own methodology

In the round, I'm for caps on both HC and PHC - there's a legal and evidence basis for it (the demand study). So there's at least an attempt to balance supply and demand.

In a previous life, I saw a free-for-all system in 1980s Clydebank. It quickly became a race to the bottom - there were no winners.