Taxi Driver Online

The NTA recently wrote a letter to all councils stating they "represent all taxi associations across the UK". Is this a lie, or is it the truth? Obviously it’s a lie but why would they say it?

Perhaps the NTA wanted to don a cloak of credibility in trying to persuade councils not to license a certain vehicle? One wonders why an organisation such as this would want to meddle in what a council should or should not licence?

The Taxi trade is made up of individuals and as such, individual choice to operate a vehicle of preference should prevail.

A Taxi association interfering in the type of vehicle a council wishes license is in my opinion overstepping the mark.


In terms of licensed drivers the NTA represents less than 6% of the total Taxi trade, they won't tell you this because it would make them look even less credible than they are. Over 94% of licensed drivers for whatever reason do not see the need to join a Taxi association of any kind. That is their choice.

To give an insight into what you might expect from your association chairman on becoming a member of your local TOA I have taken the liberty of posting the minutes of Region 2 from the 18th November 2003. Some items are interesting and some are not so interesting but it will at least give you an insight into these types of meetings.

Reference is made to Manchester in respect of Simms, Khan and Oakes. Highlighted references to others include Wayne Casey and statements attributed to him in respect of rubbishing the OFT report and his statement that the public of Carlisle are better served at weekends since deristriction of numbers.
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ASSOCIATION REGIONAL MEETING

No. 2 Region

Meeting No. 102.

18th November 2003. Roker Hotel,

Sunderland.

Members present:- Airport. Gateshead. Sunderland.

Carlisle. Newcastle (NODA). Wansbeck.

Derwentside. North Tyneside. Washington.

Apologies from:- Wear Valley; Hartlepool; E. Binks & M. Mills (NODA)

David Millward, Taxitalk Magazine.

Meeting commenced:- 11.10 a.m.

Chaired by:- C. Chandler, N.O.D.A.

The Chairman opened the meeting, which was his first as Chairman of No. 2 Region, and thanked Sunderland Association for arranging the meeting at short notice due to the recent release of the O.F.T. Report on the Taxi Industry. He then went on to welcome and introduce all the delegates present from each member Association.


The Minutes of the last Regional Meeting held at Derwentside on Tuesday 2nd September 2003, were read by the Secretary. It was proposed by R. Snedden, North Tyneside; seconded by W. Casey, Carlisle; and passed; that the Minutes were a true record.

Matters Arising:

Following a question from D. Blyth, Sunderland, the Secretary said that there was nothing of relevance to report from the A.G.M. of the Physical Disabilities Alliance (PDA) held in Sunderland recently.

The Secretary and D. Cooper gave an update on the situation in Derwentside, where illegal plying for hire in Consett by private hire vehicles has reached epidemic proportions. The latest correspondence received from the Leader of Derwentside Council, and a member of the Licensing Committee, was read out to the meeting. It is the intention of the Secretary and D. Cooper to attend the next Licensing Committee meeting where Illegal Plying for Hire will be an agenda item.\par

Regional Director\rquote s Report:

Mr. Porter thanked Station Taxi\rquote s, Sunderland, for an invitation to a recent Charity Dinner held in Sunderland.

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An enquiry has been received concerning membership from an interested party in Wear Valley, separate from the existing members.

Talks have been taking place with South Tyneside drivers, who are not very happy with the existing G.M.B.U. representation in South Tyneside.

The last Director's Meeting took place on Sunday 26th October 2003 prior to the Conference. The main part of the meeting was taken up with No. 5 Region and Messrs. Simms, Kahn and Oaks, who are not plate holders. It was decided to put the situation to the A.G.M. on Monday 27th October 2003.

Dennis Conyon was re-elected as Chairman of the N.T.A at the meeting. The Vice Chairman will be elected in Manchester on Tuesday 25th November 2003.

There was a minutes silence at the Director's Meeting in respect of the late James Fawcett M.B.E. past Regional Director of No. 2 Region.

Mr. Porter reported on the outcome of all the Resolutions to Conference, and went on to give a report on the Open Session held on Tuesday 28th October 2003.

The recent raffle which was drawn at the Conference raised 31,900 for the N.T.A.

It appears that the huge increase in the cost of a C.R.B. check (142%) is because the fee was set too low initially they priced it wrongly.

With reference to no taxi representation on DIPTAC, it appears that D. Conyon actually sat on a supplementary panel or sub committee to deal with any items relating to taxis. He never actually sat on the main committee, but on a sub committee that put forward recommendations to the main committee.

R. Thomas, Washington, asked how a driver dealt with a small toddler that couldn't be strapped in properly. Advice has been given that if an accident occurs when a child seat has been supplied by the driver, then the driver could be held liable. It would be alright if the seat was provided by the parent or guardian.

D. Cooper, Derwentside, quoted a police officer at Conference as saying that if you can't carry a passenger safely, don't carry them at all.

R. Snedden, North Tyneside, said that for insurance purposes, a new born baby is classed as a person.

K. Bain, Wansbeck, said that Morpeth Council allow two children less than 14 years of age to be classed as one. They allow four children on a rear seat that only has three seat belts.

Mr. Porter said that Local Authority rules and conditions do not overrule the law of the land.

R. Thomas, Washington, asked if he could refuse to carry a passenger in a wheelchair. D. Blyth, Sunderland, said that he couldn't, as it would be an offence under the Disability Discrimination Act (D.D.A.). It would require an exemption certificate to refuse to do so.

Meeting adjourned 12.35 p.m. to 1.35 p.m.

Mr. Porter, Regional Director, read out a press release from the Chairman of the N.T.A. concerning the O.F.T. Report.

Administration Office Report:

W. Casey, Carlisle, said that little has happened since the Conference.

There is one new temporary member at Preston to report, and South Ribble may be joining.

The London section is interested since the Conference The Society of Licensed Taxi Drivers has 2,500 members.

Taxitalk magazine offered to transcribe the Minutes of the Open Session at Conference, but two Director's objected to this, so D. Conyon will now do it.

Mr. Casey said that if Carlisle Association resigned from the N.T.A., then he will have no alternative but to resign as Administrative Officer.

S.C.A.T.A. was discussed, following criticism of the N.T.A.

Mr. Casey has donated his raffle prize to the N.T.A. in the form of a full page advert in Taxitalk magazine.

D. Cooper said that it would be disastrous if Carlisle Association were to withdraw from the N.T.A., and felt that a Regional Representative should be sent to Carlisle to discuss the situation.

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The Chairman supported this suggestion100%, and said that he would make contact with Carlisle.

D. Cooper said that Derwentside were not very happy that the Conference would be held in London again.

K. Porter said that in respect of the venue he voted on behalf of Airport Taxis.

R. Snedden, North Tyneside, said that most people were disappointed that the Conference would be in London again.

D. Blyth, Sunderland, said that Wayne Casey has been doing an excellent job in promoting the N.T.A.

It was proposed by Sunderland; seconded by Derwentside; and passed; That No. 2 Region is very happy with the Administration Officer, and will continue to give him our full support.

R. Snedden said that he was disgusted how the Executive have treated Wayne Casey, nobody should ever be told to shut up and sit down everybody should have the right to speak.

Membership:

Honorary and Commercial Membership was discussed. The Chairman read out two clauses for Honorary and Commercial Membership which were proposed by D. Blyth, Sunderland; seconded by K. Porter, Airport; and passed.

It was then proposed by K. Porter, Airport; seconded by S. Salkeld, Carlisle; and passed; \ldblquote That D. Burns (Past Regional Chairman and current Westminster Motor Insurance Association Agent) is offered both Honorary and Commercial Membership. Honorary Membership will continue should Commercial Membership cease in the future.

Financial Report:

The financial report was read by the Secretary. It was proposed by D. Cooper, Derwentside; seconded by S. Salkeld, Carlisle; and passed; that the financial report be accepted as a true record.

O. F. T. Report on Taxi Trade:

W. Casey gave details of the Carlisle response to the O.F.T. Report. Control should not be taken away from Local Authorities.

The Report also goes against DIPTAC and the D.D.A. Carlisle deregulated in 1998 and any type of vehicle can be licensed as a hackney carriage wheelchair accessible or saloon. The result is that whilst it is easier to hire a taxi on Friday, Saturday or Sunday nights, it is almost impossible to hire at taxi at 7.30 a.m. on Wednesday mornings.

All taxis are now single shifted owner driver's, there are no double shifted taxis. Mr. Casey felt that the initial N.T.A. response should be to rubbish the report, but to have a fall back position. The fall back position should be that all new licenses should be purpose built, but at the very least wheelchair accessible. Existing licenses should have grandfather rights. Taxis are a localised form of transport and they should be controlled locally.

D. Cooper, Derwentside, said that the Transport Minister at the Conference said that Regions should have control of their own affairs.

R. Snedden, North Tyneside, said that bus deregulation was a total failure, and that the economic said must be taken into consideration.

D. Conyon, N.T.A. Chairman doesn\rquote t intend to call an Emergency Meeting he doesn't believe in open meetings.

A general discussion followed, all responses to the O.F.T. Report have to be in by 12th December 2003.

Any Other Business:-

R. Wilson, Gateshead, said that Gateshead are introducing No Car Lanes shortly.

A discussion took place on trying to keep Gateshead in the N.T.A.

Meeting closed:- 3.30 p.m.

Thanks were extended to Sunderland Association for arranging the meeting.

Next meeting to be arranged for Tuesday 2nd March 2004.

Venue to be arranged.

T. E. Hines. Regional Secretary (North East & Cumbria).

i think you are being a bit selective as usual, you forgot to add the following

[/quote]it is almost impossible to hire at taxi at 7.30 a.m. on Wednesday mornings.

sorry should be the other way round.

[quote]it is almost impossible to hire at taxi at 7.30 a.m. on Wednesday mornings.

Wayne Casey, or should it be “Wayne’s World” is it any wonder why I have a problem with authority?

Nice to see Wayne selling us out for the good of the trade, makes you wonder what’s in it for him?

_________________
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"

Not being able to get a cab at 7-30 in the morning has nothing whatsoever to do with not restricitng numbers. It is down to individual work patterns and if you think that by restriciting numbers you will get a cabbies to work all night and wait around until 7-30 in the morning then you live in cloud cuckoo land.

Taxi drivers work when the work is there, thats why most people pizz off home after the clubs close.

In restricted Salford and Trafford you can't get a cab on a Sunday for love nor money and after 3 am you might as well start walking because there is no chance of getting a cab. So don't start preaching about cabs not working when it is patently obvious that less cabs leads to a worse service, as Mr Casey evidently highlighted. Or hadn't you noticed that?

JD

no, but if the cab is double shifted, then the driver will be ready and able to take over at 7 in the morning, thus the customer is getting a good service and the cab is on the road at all times.

This is what happens when numbers are regulated, but when it goes free for all, then the drivers work when it suits them.

What, instead of working the hours dictated by the owner? Imagine that, how dare he, cheeky monkey. Anyone would think the driver is self-employed when really, he is just casual labour employed to work the owners hours.

These driver don't half get ahead of themselves. I remember the good old days when you got a hard days work for a dam good thrashing.

What says you 187ums?

_________________
All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.
George Orwell, "Animal Farm"

Well whats your excuse for restricted Trafford and Salford not working on a Sunday and after the hours of 3 am for Trafford and 2 pm for Salford at weekends. With practically both areas being void of cabs after 1 am during the week.

Was Mr Casey monitoring every cab and cab firm on a Wednesday Morning back in 2003 or was it just his cab firm that couldn't get drivers out on a Wednesday Morning?



lol I can see you are a convert to the NTA and TGWU philosophy that restricted areas provide a better service. Well statistics show that this is bullchit and I'm afraid Carlisle is a part of those statistics and so are Salford and Trafford.

I'm just updating this database of mine and you will be interested to know that your place has the highest plate value so far reseached at 80k. No wonder your dead against removing quantity controls and replacing them with Quality controls.

One point that might concern you is that TPI did your last survey in 2002 and they are also doing Oxfords current survey, so if I was you I would feel a little concerned at what might happen in Plymouth this morning.

JD

only a fool would pay 80k for a plate, as for TPI, i thought about that, but you know what the forthcoming situation may suit me down to ground!

I may even be able to nab a few extra plates for me and my mates, and then i would be a plate baron.....

p.s. wheres your source for the 80k? or you making it up

So you're saying there are no single-shifted cabs on during the day?

What a load of rubbish - have a look at the PH trade if you don't get it.

Double-shifting is all about maximising the owner's profits, which is just human nature, but to posit it as being for the consumer's benefit is just nonsense.

The fact is that if the market demands cabs being out during the day and/or early mornings then that will happen. After all, if there are few taxis out on Tuesday morning then clearly those that are will be making good money, so why bother working weekends? Thus market forces would lead to more drivers working on Tuesday morning until things evened out a bit. Of course, there will always be more money to be made on weekends than on Tuesday mornings, simply because drivers don't like working weekends, so they have to make more money to compensate, which means less cabs for the customers.

I would take everything Mr Casey says with a pinch of salt - after all, one minute he's saying that drivers only have to work Saturday nights and do a school run to make a living, the next minute they're on the breadline and only making X pounds a shift, which hardly squares with there being a shortage of taxis.

There may well be no cabs available at certain times, but this has nothing to do with restricted numbers - drivers won't spend hours doing next to nothing (in a small town at 4am on Monday morning, say) on the offchance that someone may phone them for a £3 run every couple of hours or so, irrespective of whether numbers are restricted or not.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I think you're the one making it up Mr 187ums, after all it's barely a fortnight since you said:



But about six months ago you said:



Slight inconsistency there, and it's just a couple of weeks since I pointed out this inconsistency, so it's difficult to take what you say seriously.

Of course, you could quibble with the exact valuation, but, again, your previous conduct means that it's difficult to afford much credence to anything you say, but there's surely no doubt that Oxford plates are among the most valuable in the UK?

It's also ironic that your inconsistency on this issue should be demonstrated in a thread that has primarily been about the effect of restricted numbers on availability, and as demonstrated in Myth and Reality that was an issue on which an incosistency similar to your own was very much in evidence - some were saying there would be less taxis at night while others were saying the complete opposite. If the vested interests want to make up some self-serving excuse for restricting taxi numbers, then they should at least sing from the same hymn sheet

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Only on a Wednesday morning at 7-30 lol. It would appear he is saying there are no double shifted cabs in Carlisle? Thats probably because he read what Mr Casey said at the NTA meeeting. lol

If cabbies can make it pay in Carlisle without getting up at 7-30 a.m on a Wednesday morning then good luck to them, personally I think the captain had an ulterior motive for picking on a Wednesday morning? lol

Regards

JD

I well remember him moaning once about having to go out on Monday night because he couldn't get drivers.

The ignominy of it all

I think what has to be remembered is that Mr Casey is looking at things from the despatch office/family fleet owner perspective, which is clearly different from that of the average driver.

I know that in my small town drivers don't like doing very early mornings or late nights when there's no work, and clearly this occassionaly this conflicts with their office, who may want to take a half-mile booking at 6am in the morning just to keep a regular happy.

Of course, there's some merit in that, but in the final analysis drivers should be able to choose from themselves rather than being dictated to by people like Mr Casey or the paying public for that matter - after all, slavery was abolished years ago.

If someone wants to act as another's minion then that's up to them, but at the end of the day it's the twenty first century, not Norman Britain

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Well what can I say, you still haven't revealed your source, and yes if some fool is going to pay silly money for a plate, then he is indeed a fool.

Imagine some fool who paid 80k+ for a plate, its going to take him at least 3 years to pay it back, and he has to live, anyway the poor fool will be indeed gutted if it gets deregged, like I said 80k for a plate, not worth the plastic its printed on.

Roll on the survey.....................