Taxi Driver Online

Fare comparisons are misleading especially when taking those in PH monthly as a basis for comparing tariffs? This was pointed out several years ago when the table of fares in PHM were debated on TDO.

I'm not again going to go into the time consuming methodology of each areas individual tariff but it should be remembered that just because one authorities tariff might be higher than anothers at a cerrtain mileage point, it might not be higher at other mileage points, or even certain times of the day.

Dusty is quite right to point out that the difference in most restricted or derestricted areas is negligeable and I emphasise "most".

It should also be pointed out that there are over 70% of authorities that are unrestricted or in the process of being derestricted so there is basically an imbalance of two thirds against one third. If you were to take one third of the highest tariff authorities under derestriction and compare it with the one third of restricted authorities I would guess the comparisons would be similiar. On the other hand if you take the lowest third of derestricted authorities and ccompared them to the restricted authorities I wouldn't mind betting that most of those derestricted authorities were lower than the restricted authorities.

However if your going to make a qualified statement Stu why don't you do some research first before asking us to believe that your assumption is correct? You are fond of making assumptions but invariably they assumptions are unsound.

JD

Well JD was it not Peebee who made the assumption which was not correct, he suggested the the fares could not be lowered because of the plate values, I think some of you are far to quick to criticise any remark or opinion you deem to be incorrect,if it's from me, I asked for Peebee to explain to me how the plate value affects the fares charged, that is all, but both yourself and Dusty say you are not going to go into it again as it is to time consuming, perhaps I should have put it better by saying that the fares often do not reflect the cost of the plate because the fares are very similar in areas that do not have a limit on numbers, or a policy of specifying purpose built vehicles.

Anyway what are these assumptions I am fond of making that are unsound JD, please explain I am curious to know?

my comment was sarcastic stu, If plate prices remain high it will enable the borrower to pay of the loan he musta had to take to buy a plate that is actually public property.

The prices etc charged for plates nationwide is a joke, you couldn't make it up, fair do in the smoke where drivers have had to invest a lot of time and ebergy on the knowledge, but other big cities, it's a joke, normal folk I have spoke to can't understand how you can sell something that isn't yours to sell.

BTW I have no axe to grind, recently got into PH as a change from normal job, but going back to normal job, this is not for me, but seeing all the infighting going on, you lot are all mad, whilst you lot argue amopng yerselves, the real movers and shakers are getting away with murder, divide and conquer springs to mind

ATB
Paul

PEEBEE WROTE

BTW I have no axe to grind, recently got into PH as a change from normal job, but going back to normal job, this is not for me, but seeing all the infighting going on, you lot are all mad, whilst you lot argue amopng yerselves, the real movers and shakers are getting away with murder, divide and conquer springs to mind



Well said Paul and this is exactly why i am now much better off and doing the things i do, thats all i will personally say!!!

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

Well I agree that we may all be mad, and to be honest it might help in this job, but I suppose it depends on your interpretation of a normal job, and driving a taxi could never be classed as a normal job, at least not at night, did you work nights?

yes I do work at nights, by normal job I meant as an employee, my "trade" is medical sales, and being abnormal helps there too.

the madness I refer to is you guys arguing about playes, and wether they be sold or not, and wether drivers should rent, or be given free plates, all the plates belong to the public, to sell them is surely unethical, if any moeny to be made from plates, then the public purse should benefit, but while all you lot argue about it, the PH and the plate holders are laughing all the way to the bank.

Things don't all stay the same, adapt or die, it's what happejns in nature, and this old fashioned way of doing business will kill off the hacjney cab trade, it may already be too late, can see PH be allowed to ply for hire in the not too distant future, the public don't distinguish between Taxi and PH, in fact only folk who want their to remain a distinction are errm, the plate owners, wonder why that is? (ps more sarcasm, in rhetoric question )

I said wot? When?

All I said was that your claim was in effect similar to that made by the T&G a couple of years ago, which had been analysed in Myth and Reality, and that analysis hadn't been disputed, thus I pasted the analysis again for comment.



As was effectively said in M&R, I don't think fare comparisons are very useful, for the following reasons:

- as JD said, a couple of simple comparisons (say one mile and two miles) can disguise a wide of factors that can influence real life fare levels (eg extras, which can cover a wide variety of things in some areas, while in others extras are rarely charged at all).

- even assuming that meaningful official tariff comparisons can be made, that doesn't mean that that fare is actually charged - discounting is almost the norm in some areas, thus the official tariff exaggerates the actual fare charged, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that discounting is more widespread in unrestricted than restricted areas.

- Indeed, the actual fare isn't really that important, it's profit that matters - in an hour would you rather have two fares at £5 or four identical fares at £4.50? Again, the former is more likely in an unrestricted area. In other words, assuming that the vehicle running costs come to £2 a fare, the T&G style analysis would show:

Restricted area - average fare = £4.50

Unrestricted area - average fare = £5.00

Thus the trade in the restricted area looks worse off, but in fact the analysis of profit shows:

Restricted area - hourly profit = £10

Unrestricted area - hourly profit = £6

So despiter lower fares, the restricted area profit is higher.

- Incidentally, I've never claimed that fares would or should reduce in a derestriced scenario (because it's unrealistic to suggest that LAs would reduce fares), but the point is that the excess profits have to go somewhere, so if fares remain the same then that would mean higher availability for the public.

Fares may seem similar in restricted and unrestricted areas, but that's probably because things like plate values aren't considered when setting fares, in fact it's more likely that an comparison with surrounding areas may be used, as per the figures Captain Cab posted above.

But, while the figures may look the same, the profit probably won't be, and the consumer may not be penalised by higher fares in the restricted area but are penalised in other ways.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Well I can't really see what else we can do other than argue about it? If the powers that be won't listen then what else can you do? At least we're trying to highlight and debate the issue, which is a lot more than most.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

TDO Said


"I said wot? When?"

Hahaha Dusty your right, you never said that, why I thought you had is beyond my understanding

Damned suprachiasmatic nucleus I am having trouble with my circadian rhythms, pass me the melatonin please

arguing amongst yourselves serves the higher powers, means your less likely to argue with them, it's an old mangement trick, stand united though.....

Much has been said about the Edinburgh fare increase but the plain facts are laid out below. The council says this particular fare increase is 7% but the council has not said at what mileage point the 7% increase is based.

Perhaps it would have been better to describe the tariff one increase in two parts. First by stating the flag fall increase which is 3.45% up to 450 metres and secondly by describing the metre or yardage increase as it used to be known in terms of the actual monetary percentage?

Edinburgh has increased the additional yardage over and above the initial yardage of 2250 metres by 4% from 250 to 260 metres. We shall calculate in monetary terms what this increase in yardage of 2p from 23 to 25 pence actually means?

In order to determine the actual increase in percentage one calculation would be to find the increase per metre and multiply the figure by the number of metres in a kilometre or the number of metres in a unit. For instance the old tariff of 23p per 250 metres works out at 1 pence every 10.869565217391304347826086956522 metres. The new tariff of 25p works out at 1p every 10.4 metres over 260 metres. When you deduct one from the other it gives a net mtr value of

0.46956521739130434782608695652 per 1p unit.

Dividing 260 into 1000 which represents one kilometre gives a unit percentage of = 3.8461538461538461538461538461538 per unit of 25p

If you multiply the one unit of 3.8461538461538461538461538461538 by 25p it gives a figure of

96.153846153846153846153846153846 pence per kilometre. = 154p per mile

If you do the same equation using the old tariff of 23p and yardage of 250 metres it gives the following result.

1000 metres divided by 250 = 4 units multiply the 4 units by 23p = 92p per kilometre. = 148p per mile

We can now deduct the old tariff from the new and it will give us the actual increase in terms of monetary value per kilometre.

96.153846153846153846153846153846 pence, taking away the old tariff of 92p leaves us with an increase per kilometre of 4.15p.

In terms of percentage increase from old to new it works out at 4.5108695652173913043478260869565% per kilometre

In terms of mileage the new tariff works out at 154 per mile while the old tariff is 1.48 per mile.

The overall increase per mile is 6p which equates to 4%

So let's see what we have?

Tariff one flag fall increase up to 450 metres = 5p from 1.45 to 150 = 3.45%

Yardage increase over and above 2250 = 250 metres to 260 metres = net increase of 4.51% per kilometre.

Monetary increase per kilometre = 4.15p

Monetary increase per mile 6p = 4%

Increase over 2.4 miles = 27p = 5.66%

Increase on Tariff one flag fall = 5p to 1.50 = 3.45%.

On Tariff one up to 450 metres the fare is 1.50, the new unit increase is 2p from 23 to 25p this gives an additional 16 pence on 8 gross units of 225 metres = 8 x 225 = 1800 + 450 = 2250. This gives a total of 3.50 for the first 1.4 miles.

On the old Tariff one up to 450 metres the fare was 1.45, the unit increase was 23p per 225 metres = 8 x 225 = 1800 + 450 = 2250. This gave a total of 3.29 for the first 1.4 miles. 8 x 23 = 1.84 + 1.45 flag fall = 3.29.

The overall increase on the new tariff to that of the old tariff of 3.29 for 1.4 miles, is 21p = 6.38%

Depending on your political bias you can round the precise figure up or down to either, 7%, 6.5% or 6% whatever you prefer but the exact increase over 1.4 miles or 2250 metres is 6.38%.
............................................................................

I did this last Wednesday or Thursday and there was something else I wanted to calculate but it is now Monday and I have forgotten what it was? lol.

You will notice that some of the percentages are not rounded up until the final analysis this is because I wanted people to see the precise nature of the percentages.

For those people who privately asked my opinion on the fare increase I hope the above breakdown is sufficient.

The above figures were calculated manually with the aid of a calculator and if anyone can see any discrepancy then by all means don't be shy and let me know.

The main point is that the percentage rise should be calculated at the exact rate the council stated but the new percentage rate of 7% as far as I'm aware has never been qualified over a set distance. If anyone can find out what the set distance actually is then perhaps we can also calculate the exact percentage for that distance, that should be interesting. If however the rate has been rounded up from 6.38% over 1.4 miles to 7% as I suspect, then the council should come clean and state this.

As it stands at no point does the increase on tariff one reach the magical figure of 7% however if you combined tariffs one and two then the picture changes up to a certain point?

Tariff 2 gives a percentage rate increase which is initially higher than 7% but because of the 1p yardage increase over the additional 10 metres of 260, the increase becomes regressive at a rapid rate of knots.

I haven't gone into detail on tariff 2 but I did explain in an earlier post how the tariff two percentage was much higher than 7% especially over the first 1.4 miles.

I haven't bothered looking at Tariff 3 or 4, as they are inconsequential to the larger picture. Percentages can be calculated by the difference in monetary terms from the old tariff to the new. For example if the old rate for 1.4 miles were 10.00 and the new rate 11.00 then that would be an increase of 10%.

I hope this breakdown helps anyone who has an interest in the fare rise and if my calculations are wrong or incomplete then by all means take me to task.

Regards

JD

As with the 'headline' inflation rate I think the 'headline' taxi tariff increase figure is usually some kind of average based on a handful of typical trips or perhaps even one typical trip.

Thus unless it's specifically stated it's effectively impossible to deduce how the headline figure is arrived at.

And it's certainly the case that it would effectively be impossible to apply a tariff rise that would give exactly the same %age rise for all types of trip, even with a simple tariff structure.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I would place a bet that in most areas of the country when a council say the fare is going up x%, no-one ever checks it.

That includes councillors and the local trade.

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IDFIMH

Sussex, I have asked this question of you before, and I will ask you again. When, to your certain knowledge, has a Council imposed an increase on the tariff against the wishes of the trade? Locally,I know of a taxi driver who wrote to his LA complaining that fares had not increased in NINE years. They wrote back to him saying, " but no one has asked for an increase in nine years!" If you do not ask, you do not get? Surely it is the case that a Council could not,and would not, impose an increase against the wishes of the trade? Why would they?

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Former taxi driver