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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:10 am 
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Location: Grim North, Carrot Crunchers and Codhead Country, North of Watford Gap
But as the law stands at the moment in the English sector, and some people know this, you cannot refuse/stop a punter who lights up, but there again I know where the brake pedal is

Nowt no worst than some who take the biggest drag on the fag outside the cab, get in the cab, then exhale into your face as they tell you where they are going


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:32 am 
stu wrote:
jimbo wrote:
Sussex wrote:
jasbar wrote:
I hate smoking too. The ban won't stop smoking. It hasn't elsewhere, it won't here.

Well I'm not so sure about that, only time will tell.

But from my experience fewer and fewer people are smoking, and where, say, ten years ago many people asked if they could smoke in the car, less than one a month ask now.

In my opinion smokers are the among the most selfish people I come into contact with, so they should keep their killing habit to themselves. :wink:


Well, there had to be a topic somewhere on here that I just had to agree with Sussex on, and here it is!

So let's bang in a few facts.

Smoking Kills.

50% of smokers will die from a smoking related disease.

Only 26% of the adult population of the UK smoke. (31% in Scotland)

The Royal Scam.
Illegal drugs, such as Heroin, and Cocaine, at least have a very visible and physiological effect, not that I have, or ever would, try them. The biggest scam in the history of civilisation is TOBACCO. Why? because, unlike other recreational drugs, such as the above, and which should also include fairly, alcohol, Tobacco in itself does not offer an artificial high. With a content that some claim the tobacco industry secretly boost of nicotine, that is more addictive than heroin. All that a cigarette does in effect, is satisfy the craving for nicotine, until the next ciggie. No high, no buzz. So why do smokers smoke? Because they HAVE to, not because they want to. The most addictive drug in the world is legal, and smokers pay 95% tax on thier fix. Give up NOW. Hey! You! Mr 40 A Day! You know how you feel, after your first fag of the day, or after a meal, or after sex, if you can remember, you could feel as good as I do all the time, because I don't suffer the craving that you do, that only another ciggie will cure. Go on , you all threaten to bring the goverment to it's knees by giving up the evil weed , so go on, DO IT!!!!!.... But you can't, can you?

Ever known anyone over 20 have their first cigarette?

Tobacco, the most expensive method of suicide.

Why is it, (in England, anyway,) that smoking taxi drivers have "No Smoking" signs in their Cabs?



Well Jimbo 100% of people die, but as usual the general message about this gets lost in peoples personal dislike of smoking, it was never about the smoking, it was about the method used to apply a blanket ban.

Death rates for men aged 16-34 are virtually the same as in 1971.

Suicide rates for men aged 15-24 have more than doubled since 1971.

The incidence of prostate cancer has increased by over 135 per cent since 1971.

The number of men with testicular cancer has more than doubled since 1971.

The number of men aged 25-64 dying from chronic liver disease has increased five times since 1970. (Alcohol misuse is the main cause of chronic liver disease.)

The proportion of men who are obese has more than tripled since 1980

Men in social class five (unskilled manual) still have a life expectancy at birth that is below average male life expectancy in the early 1970s.


STATISTICS BACKGROUND

Average male life expectancy at birth is now 75 years.


Men in social class 5 still have a life expectancy at birth that is below average male life expectancy in the early 1970s. The average life expectancy of a man in social class 5 (unskilled manual) is currently 68.2 years; average life expectancy for all men in 1972-76 was 69.2 years.


Men living in some disadvantaged communities continue to have a life expectancy similar to the national average male life expectancy for the late 1970s. The life expectancy at birth of all men in Manchester is currently 70.5 years; average life expectancy for all men in 1977-81 was 70.0 years.
Death rates for men aged 16-34 are virtually the same as in 1971. The death rate for men aged 16-24 and 25-34 was 100 per 100,000 population in 1971; in 1999, the death rates were 80 per 100,000 for men aged 16-24 and 100 for men aged 25-34.


Suicide rates for men aged 15-24 have more than doubled since 1971. There were 16 suicides per 100,000 population aged 15-24 in 1999 compared to 'only' seven per 100,000 in 1971. The majority of suicides now occur in young adult males and suicide is the most common cause of death in men aged under 35.


The incidence of prostate cancer has increased by over 135 per cent since 1971. 30 men per 100,000 were diagnosed with prostate cancer in 1971; by 1997, 71 men per 100,000 were diagnosed. 18,300 men are now diagnosed with prostate cancer each year and 8,500 die.


The number of men with testicular cancer more than doubled between 1971 and 1997. There are now over 1,440 new cases diagnosed each year, although 'only' 70 deaths.


The number of men aged 25-64 dying from chronic liver disease has increased five-fold in the period 1970-2000. Alcohol misuse is the biggest single cause of chronic liver disease. 27 per cent of men now drink more than the recommended limits. 36 per cent of those aged 16-24 drink excessively.


The proportion of men who are obese has more than tripled since 1980; the proportion of men who are overweight has increased by one-third. 45 per cent of men are now overweight and another 17 per cent are obese


http://www.menshealthforum.org.uk/userp ... tem_id=915


How come all these cancers are increasing whilst the rate of smoking is falling?


Yeah, I was a smoker. Packed it in. Smelly horrible habit.

But, when people come to my house as guests, I accord them the fullest comforts I can. I don't want them sitting outside. I want to talk with them.
But, you know, smokers have now been stigmatised for so long they now drift to the back door automatically.

I know smoking is smelly. I know people hate it. But those who smoke are still people. My kinda people.

"Forgive me my trespasses, and those who trespass against me".

Stu, you're a brick. I salute you.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:59 am 
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stu wrote:
also if smokers are the most selfish people you know, the one a month who asks you if you can smoke should not bother asking :?

Alas my car is not the only place people smoke.

Smoking smells, smokers smell, and why should my kids have to put up with other people's second hand smoke? :sad:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:32 am 
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For a minute there I thought you had got the B mixed up with the P :shock: :lol:

Anyway in my search for a reason why I am no longer feel as happy as I used to be, and determined to find out why, I stumbled across a book by Joost A. M. Meerloo, M.D it's called "Rape of the Mind" some interesting stuff in it although it was written 50 years ago.

http://www.ninehundred.net/control/index.html

Also just a thought, it's reckoned that up to 24000 people are killed each year in this Country and thousands of others are admitted to hospital because of air quality problems caused by transport emissions against the 1200 who are being killed by passive smoking :^o so are people not safer indoors with their ciggie in a controlled environment rather than being forced to sit or stand in all that pollution and thus risking death or illness?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:39 am 
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Sussex wrote:
stu wrote:
also if smokers are the most selfish people you know, the one a month who asks you if you can smoke should not bother asking :?

Alas my car is not the only place people smoke.

Smoking smells, smokers smell, and why should my kids have to put up with other people's second hand smoke? :sad:


Well it was never about the smell Sussex, it was a health and safety issue, and who would smoke around children these days.

Although I once had a teacher in the cab who told me they could not smoke anywhere on the premises, he had to spend his time gazing out the staff room window watching the children have their after dinner smoke. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:39 pm 
Sussex wrote:
stu wrote:
also if smokers are the most selfish people you know, the one a month who asks you if you can smoke should not bother asking :?

Alas my car is not the only place people smoke.

Smoking smells, smokers smell, and why should my kids have to put up with other people's second hand smoke? :sad:


No smoking where food is being served. No smoking anywhere near children. And non-moking being the norm everywhere else, except where wholly separate facilities can be provided and which are controlled to a high standard of air quality. This is where reasonable government should have drawn the line.

But, this isn't really about smoking. It's about people justifying themselves, and taking control of others' lives.

The single issue lobbyist, desperately in need of the big idea.

The single-minded politician, desperately in need of the polictical legacy. Desperate to show that our miserable hot air talking shop pretendy wee \parliament can do something.

Curious isn't it when your cred has to come from demanding people don't do things, isn't it.

Personally I would have preferred they'd turned their attention to the parlous state of our Health Service, to the quality of our education system, to the police service is so poorly manned and crimes against the person are so rampant.

Or to reform the way councils operate. The misuse of airguns. The poorly run justice system. A pathetic railway and other transport infrastructure. The inadequate control of energy prices and power generation for the 21st century.

The jury is still out on the smoking ban. I know it has affected my trade. I fear during next winter it will simply get worse.

Bingo halls are already closing, Wetherspoons have reported a dip in profits in their Scottish pubs for the first quarter - their English pubs are running ahead of targets.

Segregation not stigmatisation.

Seems sensible to me. Perhaps too sensible for politicians though.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:38 pm 
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jasbar wrote:

Seems sensible to me. Perhaps too sensible for politicians though.


I think you have it in a nutshell my friend, Everyone is entitled to their opinion and of course free speech though. I personally just happen to agree with you and Stu, just my humble opinion though!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:50 pm 
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At the end of the day it's our own fault for putting up with it, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I look forward to the troops of the state telling me where I am going wrong, often by using a combination of conversation and allegory :wink: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:09 am 
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Mell Smith lights up in Edinburgh theater, how many has he killed with his passive smoke????
Edinburgh evening news


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:58 am 
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Big Brother is watching us all :(

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:40 pm 
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I've added a recent article from the Glasgow Herald in order to fuel this smoking debate. The article highlights the possible legal exclusion of smokers from the workplace.
.....................................................................

The Herald (Glasgow)

August 8, 2006

HEADLINE: Firms legally allowed to refuse to hire smokers

COMPANIES in the European Union may legally refuse to hire smokers because EU antidiscrimination laws do not protect them, the European Commission said.


European Parliament member Catherine Stihler raised the issue last week when she questioned the executive about it, according to Katharina von Schnurbein, a commission spokeswoman.

Stihler, a Scottish Labour deputy, was responding to constituents' reports of a job advertisement for an Irish call-centre which said "smokers need not apply". Ms von Schnurbein, spokeswoman for Employment and Social Affairs Commissioner Vladimir Spidla, said: "Our anti-discrimination legislation for the workplace covers four areas - age, disability, religion or belief and sexual orientation. Then in general the rules cover gender and race, and that's it.

"There are a lot of things this doesn't cover - you could say 'I don't want an alcoholic working for me', " she said. Schnurbein added there are no proposals to add on to the EU's anti-discrimination laws. Ireland enacted a smoking ban in enclosed workplaces in 2004, and a ban on smoking in public spaces in Scotland was introduced in March this year.

There is thought to have been an increase since then of people wanting to give up the habit, but the latest statistics, which predate the ban, show that just over one in four of the adult population smokes, compared with almost one-third eight years ago. A similar ban is expected to come into force in England next year. Although the Scottish ban has gained a grudging acceptance among smokers, it causes occasional controversy, as when a taxi driverwas fined for letting his daughter smoke while she was a passenger.

In April a Glasgow restaurant was the first venue in Scotland to be fined for flouting the ban, and received a GBP200 fixed penalty.
......................................................


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:54 pm 
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But what better way to make people stop smoking, thus increasing their life expectancy.

Also save them 1000s of pounds a year and stop them smelling like a bonfire.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:52 pm 
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Further to the smoking debate is this ruling on job-add discrimination.
...........................................................

Title: No smokers please as Brussels supports job-ad discrimination

Subject: EMPLOYMENT - EUROPEAN UNION

Keywords: DISCRIMINATION : EC LAW : SMOKING

Source: Financial Times, August 5, 2006, 1

Author: Bounds, Andrew

Date: Aug 07, 2006

Abstract


The European Commissioner for Employment and Equal Opportunities, Vladimir Spidla, has ruled that a recruitment advert placed by an Irish call centre did not breach anti-discrimination legislation by stating that "smokers need not apply". He clarified that EU law does not apply to tobacco users. Mr Spidla is also considering whether to introduce legislation to protect workers from the effects of passive smoking.

....................................................


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:18 pm 
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I read somewhere recently that somewhere in the states, they are going to stop people smoking in there own houses if they are attached to another property.

Of course this will be welcomed by the zealots here as well, it's a changing world alright. :sad:

Mel Smith has had a taste of the way the law works, it's just the beginning, we are in the grip of something now, goodbye freedom, hello coercion and intimidation. :cry:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:21 pm 
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JD wrote:
Further to the smoking debate is this ruling on job-add discrimination.
...........................................................

Title: No smokers please as Brussels supports job-ad discrimination

Subject: EMPLOYMENT - EUROPEAN UNION

Keywords: DISCRIMINATION : EC LAW : SMOKING

Source: Financial Times, August 5, 2006, 1

Author: Bounds, Andrew

Date: Aug 07, 2006

Abstract


The European Commissioner for Employment and Equal Opportunities, Vladimir Spidla, has ruled that a recruitment advert placed by an Irish call centre did not breach anti-discrimination legislation by stating that "smokers need not apply". He clarified that EU law does not apply to tobacco users. Mr Spidla is also considering whether to introduce legislation to protect workers from the effects of passive smoking.

....................................................



In some places I believe that you are sacked if you dont stop smoking in your own time, well in the states anyway.


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