Taxi Driver Online

Do you mean local people as agaisnt local councillors?

If people are not consulted or made aware, how are they best placed to decide?

Could it be that like me, you think the public should have been consulted and a decision based on what they want, rather than what councillors want?

Regards

JD

JD it looks like you're making a case for regulation of numbers , at least that way surveys are held, deregulated areas, no surveyors , you might well be right.

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

That's a fine line you draw because if such a decision was left to the public there could be a situation where there are no restricted authorities? The simple fact is that the public are never asked if they would like the restrictions on taxi numbers removed? I don't think the restricted side of the trade would particularly like that idea do you?

How come you're always up at this time of the morning, can't you sleep?

JD

. gallstones, extremely painful, could get them taken out, but can't afford time off work,

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

The point is when asking a question such as would you like as many taxis as possible, you also have to say that obviously you would be paying more for the privilege , I believe you have to find a balance, I do not want the Taxi Driver to work long hours for little pay

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

What, like Lincoln?

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Former taxi driver

As long as it was clearly identified what licenses were restricted and what licenses were not.
As long as PH operations were called PH operations and not TAXIS.

It may also need drawing to your attention that councillors are in fact elected members of the public.
It may also need drawing to your attention that the reason they are elected it to represent the views and best interest of the general public.

I would add that when you take your case to magistrates court your case will be heard by selected members of the public.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

I think that licensing officers are responsible for the reports they present to councillors, who will very often make a decision based on that report.

This works both ways, as you point out in Peterborough and in other areas when LO's have opinions.

A report should be unbiased to any particular point of view and based on facts, it is then upto the protagonists to present the best case.

Just an opinion!

regards

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I think Mr T was making a mute point and I responded accordingly. If the point was meant to be serious I think it would have taken on a completely different mantra. As it stands we know that councillors are elected representatives, the funny part about that, is that like Governments they invariably get elected by a minority of the electorate, so under those circumstances they end up representing the minority.

JD

Thats a wide brush your using but who exactly is it aimed at? Which conditions do you refer, the turning circle perhaps? Certainly that doesn't apply to Peterborough because they are already unrestricted.

Regards

JD

Yes I understand your concern but I believe it is a concern that councillors have to reconcile and that we Taxi drivers should not concern ourselves with what others wish to drive. Always considering of course that it is a recognised motor vehicle that conforms to the standards laid down by the licensing authority. After all if councillors want us to do their job for them then we don't really need councillors do we? If Taxi organisation want to dictate what drivers can and cannot drive then they should become councillors. I am a firm believer that Taxi organisations should represent Taxi drivers and let councillors represent the public.



Yes I understand that problem but that situation might only arise once in a blue moon?



Well this is an issue that councils have to reconcile when deciding whether to license these vehicles. It should not concern you or I because you or I probably wouldn't drive one of these vehicles? Do we as Taxi drivers have the right to tell others they cannot drive rear loading WAV's just because we wouldn't drive one ourselves?



Again, I do not believe it is up to Taxi drivers to tell others what to drive. Councillors are quite capable of reasoning the pros and cons for themselves if they aren't then they are in the wrong job.



Yes I know and to be quite honest, the comments at that particular time have not changed much to this day because many still believe that people who drive saloon vehicles are not real Taxi drivers? Those are not my sentiments but no doubt you will have heard that stated many times in the past.

That was the opinion of the TOA at the time and as I said it still applies in many cases. However my stand has always been choice and I'm afraid that will always be the case.



Well I am gratified to hear that you support freedom of choice as will probably the majority of people who subscribe to this site. However I don't believe that Taxi drivers should be advising councillors what vehicles not to license, especially when we have Rickshaws and Tuk Tuks running around in various guises?



Ok that’s understandable because we are talking about conditions rather than the vehicle. I don't believe the 25ft turning circle is a necessary condition, it might be advantageous but it certainly isn't a necessity. I'm sure supporters of the turning circle in London will present a different picture.



If you have driven LTI vehicles as long as I have you might not use the words "standards" and "LTI" in the same sentence? In my opinion the standard of previous LTI vehicles has been decidedly substandard and basic. They have never been of the same standard associated with a saloon type vehicle of similar price. The only reason they commanded their exorbitant price tag is by virtue of councillors and the PCO in insisting on an unreasonable turning circle?



You still haven't defined what standards an LTI vehicle has that others don't have? The turning circle is not a standard, every vehicle has a turning circle it just happens that setting the requirement at 25ft excludes every manufacturer bar two? And just look at the poor quality of these vehicles over the years compared to other similarly priced vehicles?

Bringing driver standards into the equation only clouds the water and diverts attention from the real issue.



You are equating standards with conditions, we could have a condition that states all vehicles shall be blue, thats hardly a standard on the other hand we could have a condition that states all vehicles should have ABS now that certainly is a standard and one bourne out of safety and I might add, one which LTI could not comply with until this month? We could have another safety standard which stiipulates airbags for all vehicles but the reason we dont have that is because LTI can't comply. The Turning circle is not a safety standard or a neccesity and it would seem to me your case for standards is based solely on this one condition?



Just because you haven't heard does not mean that such an event has not taken place?



As I stated, you are not aware of what might have taken place, therefore you can be forgiven for not knowing what the situation is in Manchester? The current situation is that the council, the TODA, GMBU, T&G are all in favour of retaining the turning circle. Their reasoning is that to allow other vehicles to be licensed would dilute the recognisable feature of a Manchester Taxi, which would have the effect of making all vehicles both Private hire and Hackneys indistinguishable?

That is the fear factor of the Manchester Taxi trade bodies and the council. So the presumption is, that no other vehicle manufacturer is ever likely to produce a vehicle with a 25ft turning circle which could have the effect of sustaining that position for a long time to come?

Regards

JD

They represent those who make a decision to take up their right to vote, and I agree that that is a minority in a lot of areas.

The problem is that if you asked a member of the public in Gateshead if they wanted more taxis you would get a different answer on a Tuesday afternoon than you would on a Saturday night.

Do you not agree that it would be more factually correct if they understood that the vehicles you were taking about were the HC's and NOT the PH vehicles, obviously making them aware of the difference PRIOR to the question. Would you also add that the PH sector have never been restricted and still could not cope with demand at peak times.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

Why do you have a concern that they should? And before you say you don't, you are on record as saying you do. However, it has never been suggested that you impose your will, likewise it has never been suggested that the T&G or the NTA have imposed their will in wanting a restricted numbers policy.

The fact is, that this thread is about vehicle choice and not restricted numbers, or my list of restricted councils. The important issue here is driver choice and the reasons why it is being denied? If you want local councils to decide democratically what their policy on deregulation of numbers should be, then perhaps the only solution is to ask the public?

In this particular thread we are talking about the T&G working against the interests of both drivers and public and in favour of one particular vehicle manufacturer.



Well this particular driver has made the decision that he wanted to drive something other than an LTI vehicle, so I assume that fits into the category of your notion that it is a decision for drivers to make? The problem this particular driver has is that he also had the backing of around 170 of his colleagues? But your not to know that are you, otherwise you might not have made that statement above?



Well that’s very magnanimous of you, on this site we do not try and restrict peoples views, either locally or nationally? I believe the T&G and the NTA and every other organisation has the right to put across their opinion even though they only represent a small minority of the UK Taxi trade. I am sure these organisations have no problem with me or anyone else exercising their right to present facts that might go someway in balancing the truth?



The reason my list was set up is because of all the nonsense banded about regarding the number of councils that restrict numbers. The information in that document was fact and it still is, I have not had one licensing officer say it wasn't useful. On the other hand I have had many ask me for advice and help and thanking me for the information.

If you prefer I suppose I could always write to Gateshead and give them some input inot their current policy considerations assuming they have not yet been completed? I'm sure they would like to hear an alternative viewpoint to your own? lol



Interference has nothing whatsoever to do with imposing ones will? They are different as chalk and cheese. Imposing ones will is to exert power over others, you may use the term glibly in reference to me but you cannot show me an example to support the charge? Sending licensing officers a factual list of those councils who retain control of numbers is hardly an exercise in power control?

I can think of many untruths banded about by those who wish to see quantity controls retained and even extended and under the circumstances it is good that those views can be exposed for what they are? I think it is good for this trade that you have a guy like me around if only to expose people like you? Lol



Yes we know you hate the things, don't you suppose that others might hate them too? Therefore if you wouldn't buy one, why should anyone else? Captain Cab refers to the standards set by the COF, he implies LTI have always risen to those standards, It is my opinion that the turning circle is not a standard and it has only served as a restriction to better quality vehicles. So if we could get away from your obsession with my restricted quota list perhaps we could extract from you your opinion of driver choice in this matter?



Well the two go hand in hand and in this case drivers chose to have other vehicles licensed, the public for their part were never asked their opinion?



Some are of the opinion that councillors represent the public and intimate that it gives them the power to act on the publics behalf? Yet you suggest councillors should consult the public on this issue, which is a slight difference of opinion to some others?

Perhaps like me you think unmet demand surveys should also include a section on vehicle choice? Perhaps that’s too simple an approach but Peterborough do not have quantity controls, so no such exercise could be incorporated into a survey. That still does not mean such an exercise could not be carried with with ease? Even a simple telephone survey might be sufficient to gauge public opinion similar to the one I carried out myself in Peterborough this morning?

As I have already explained, the buzzword is "choice" and that does not mean the type of choice advocated by LTI and the T&G?

It means driver and public choice and If you need reminding what Choice is, here are a few extracts of your past comments, just to jog your memory.

2004 you wrote:

Managed growth, and a choice of vehicles is the only way to satisfy public demand.

In short, in Gateshead, people buy WAVs to get plates so if they had the chance to spend less and get a saloon they would most certainly choose that option.

2003: What is suitable to one isn't to another, and that goes for customers as well as drivers

2004: People confined to a wheelchair are NOT the only disabled people in this country, and many of them DO NOT WISH to travel in anything other than a saloon.

JD

Late in 1969 I said "daddy" .......... shortly after I said "mammy" and ever since I have learned new things on a daily basis.

This has continued into my adult life.

I have (I suppose) experienced things that a lot of commetators on the industry have not, and my posts on here relate directly to those experiences.

The choice of vehicle is determined by the cheapest option NOT BY WHAT IS REQUIRED BY THE CUSTOMER. The needs of the customer should be properly established in order to deliver the required service.
Properly managed service is what is required as it allows control over the vehicles on the fleet.

I don't see how we can claim to deliver the best service if customer choice is limited to one vehicle type, whether that is a LTI or a Fiat Doblo.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

I would agree with that and thank you for being candid.

JD