Taxi Driver Online

Which makes me correct?

There is a requirement that 'any fare or estimated fare quoted' is recorded before the commencement of the journey.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Besides, PH fares aren't regulated, so the customer would have no idea if the metered rate was the right one

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I think the pertinent word is ANY, and to that extent I read the requirement merely being to record a fare that it is quoted or agreed, but it doesn't mean that the fare MUST be quoted or agreed.

If you were filling in a form and it asked you to write down any convictions, that means merely that you record convictions that you have, it doesn't mean that you must have convictions.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

So the other bits like name, address, time, date, car allocated etc are optional extras too?

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

For Cliff's sake man, I said that the pertinent word was 'any', but the other requirements don't use the term 'any'.

If you read the regulation in its entirety, then surely the insertion of the word 'any' indicates that (e) is not compulsory, unlike the others [except (g)]?

11. Before the commencement of each journey booked at an operating centre specified in his licence an operator shall enter the following particulars of the booking in the record referred to in regulation 10 -

(a) the date on which the booking is made and, if different, the date of the proposed journey;

(b) the name of the person for whom the booking is made or other identification of him, or, if more than one person, the name or other identification of one of them;

(c) the agreed time and place of collection, or, if more than one, the agreed time and place of the first;

(d) the main destination specified at the time of the booking;

(e) any fare or estimated fare quoted;

(f) the name of the driver carrying out the booking or other identification of him;

(g) if applicable, the name of the other operator to whom the booking has been sub-contracted, and

(h) the registered number of the vehicle to be used or such other means of identifying it as may be adopted.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

For Cliff's sake? aah The Young Ones

Okay so if I contact my colleagues within the London HC trade and arrange for that three letter word to be removed just for you, you'd be happy and then I might agree?

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Your making yourself look foolish cap.

Does the regulation not say

"Any" fare or estimated fare?

Before the commencement of a journey?

Considering 99.9% of the time there won't be an estimated fare, Unless you've found legislation which states the contrary and that every london private hire operator must quote a fare to every person who books a vehicle?

For the time being digest this and perhaps later on an informed London Private hire operator will come along and support your theory?

Regards

JD
................................................................
Form of record of private hire bookings

10. The record which an operator is required to keep by virtue of section 4(3)(b) of the 1998 Act at each operating centre specified in his licence of the private hire bookings accepted by him there shall be kept-

(a) in writing, or
(b) in such other form that the information contained in it can easily be reduced to writing. Particulars of private hire bookings

11. Before the commencement of each journey booked at an operating centre specified in his licence an operator shall enter the following particulars of the booking in the record referred to in regulation 10-

(a) the date on which the booking is made and, if different, the date of the proposed journey;
(b) the name of the person for whom the booking is made or such other means of identifying him asmay be given;
(c) the agreed time and place of collection;
(d) every destination specified at the time of the booking;

(e) any fare or estimated fare quoted;

(f) the name of the driver carrying out the booking or such other means of identifying him as may be adopted;
(g) the name of any person to whom the operator may have sub-contracted the booking;
(h) the registered number of the vehicle used or such other means of identifying it as may be adopted; and
(i) where the booking is to be carried out by providing a London cab, confirmation that the person making the booking was notified in accordance with regulation
...............................................................

Thank you JD.

I would have thought at least one time in this thread someone would have asked if;

(a) My Private Hire Cars have meters

(b) Am I a meter agent



regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I don't think it's a case of whether or not you agree, the simple fact of the matter is that regulatiuon 11 doesn't require an operator to write in a book the amount of every fare undertaken by a private hire driver. Everyone else can see that bar you? We couldn't have made it any clearer, could we? Hasn't GBC or GMBU put you right on this matter?

Regards

JD

Meters in PHV its on the agenda meeting City Hall next week, tend to agree banning meters in London ILLEGAL.Time will tell, HC will be overjoyed AAAAAAAAAAH HE HE
AGITATE EDUCATE AGITATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
The views expressed by this contributor do not neccesarily reflect the policys of The GMB Nationally or of the GMB London Region.

So if the contract is between the passenger and the operator and the driver can rip people off until his heart is content because nobody knows what the fare should be....especially the customer

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Why Skippy? are people in London just simply more stupid than in other areas (don't answer that ! )

I think roof signs on PH are a very bad idea.

The tax disc sized identification is what the PCO and London PH legislation decreed, its not a bad idea.

regards

CC[/quote]

Captain, I know what your saying and i agree to some extent, but in virtually every other part of the country there is a mix of hacks and saloons doing the same job, and would not work to some extent, unless the cars where all one color or the signs but London is strictly hack, so the PH could have a roof sign, and the best way to sit the sign would be from front to back, like some of the American cabs have, instead of side to side and have no wording showing on the front or rear of it, it would only be able to be read from the side.
Remember why we do this job captain yes I know its to make as much as we can before we get our free bus pass, but while we are doing it public safety comes first every time in my book, and I don't give a toss what the councils think or the difference between hack and PH as long as women can have the knowledge that they are getting into a safe vehicle, and can get to where ever they are going as safe as possible without any worrys

Captain, I know what your saying and i agree to some extent, but in virtually every other part of the country there is a mix of hacks and saloons doing the same job, and would not work to some extent, unless the cars where all one color or the signs but London is strictly hack, so the PH could have a roof sign, and the best way to sit the sign would be from front to back, like some of the American cabs have, instead of side to side and have no wording showing on the front or rear of it, it would only be able to be read from the side.
Remember why we do this job captain yes I know its to make as much as we can before we get our free bus pass, but while we are doing it public safety comes first every time in my book, and I don't give a toss what the councils think or the difference between hack and PH as long as women can have the knowledge that they are getting into a safe vehicle, and can get to where ever they are going as safe as possible without any worrys[/quote]

Skippy,

I don’t see why PH needs roof signs and anything that leads people to believe PH are taxis should be opposed. If PH is pre booking (and I know I'm sounding repetitive) then the customer should be waiting for the PHV to arrive.

As for the public safety issue how’s about this story from not so long ago in Rochdale;


23 convicted in private hire abuse clampdown

Publisher: Ian Morgan
Published: 15/11/2006 - 15:47:19 PM Printable version




Beware of rogue taxis! Twenty-Three Private hire drivers have been convicted after a clampdown by Rochdale Council.

The drivers, who were all caught plying for hire were targeted as part of a joint campaign between the council and the police, designed to tackle rogue operators.

In all, 27 drivers were prosecuted.

23 were found guilty of offences of plying for hire without the appropriate licence and for driving without insurance.

Private hire drivers are only allowed to carry passengers who have pre-booked them through a private hire operator.

They are not allowed to pick up people who flag them down on the street or to stand at a rank.

If they do so, then their insurance is void and passengers are put at significant risk.

The total fines received by the drivers amounted to £6700 plus £5573 costs and each had at least 6 points placed on his licence, resulting in five of them being disqualified from driving for 6 months.

Lead Member for Environment & Sustainability, Councillor Wera Hobhouse said: "I am delighted with the outcome of these cases. Public safety is our number one concern and private hire drivers who flout the law simply won't be tolerated. I hope this serves as a warning to other operators that they just can't get away with it."

Adrian Watson, Chief Environmental Health and Licensing Officer, said, "This operation proved just how effective we can be when working with our partners to improve safety on our streets. The message to the public is clear - either use taxis, which in Rochdale are black cabs or white saloons and have white licence plates, or make arrangements with one of the private hire companies, before you go into town, for your return journey."

All those convicted will be invited to attend a Council Licensing Panel when the future of their drivers' licences will be considered.


Is 23 drivers plying for hire without insurance in a little place like Rochdale not tell you something about the public perception of PHV's and also the attitude of some within the PH trade? Does it not make you think how if it is on this scale in Rochdale what London may be like?

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Come on Captain catch up with the real world, There maybe a loop hole here as well maybe JD will know???. and that is just get public hire insurance ,instead of private hire, from the quotes I have received there is very little difference in the price, then you would be covered.
When the public phone most say can I have a taxi, whether or not its hack or PH, in London its a mini cab.
I know this is extremely hard for you to grasp but all I was on about was LONDON, and nowhere else.
When someone phones for a cab I know they are supposed to be ready and standing at the pick up point expecting a cab but it would help if the cab was recognisable before they approached it
You never know ELL Tell from the GMB could be moon lighting

I'm almost certain the insurance thing has been dealt with, but will listen to any input JD has. I believe the fact that the vehicle is licensed as private hire affects it. Plying for hire as I understand it invalidates the insurance.

Hardy -v- Motor Insurers' Bureau [1964] 2 QB 745

1964
CA

The court was asked whether insurance pursuant to the Road Traffic Act 1960 would provide valid cover for the benefit of a third party injured by deliberately criminal conduct on the part of the driver. Held: "The rule of law on which the major premise is based - ex turpi causa non oritur actio - is concerned not specifically with the lawfulness of contracts but generally with the enforcement of rights by the courts, whether or not such rights arise under contract. All that the rule means is that the courts will not enforce a right which would otherwise be enforceable if the right arises out of an act committed by the person asserting the right (or by someone who is regarded in law as his successor) which is regarded by the court as sufficiently anti-social to justify the court's refusing to enforce that right."

JD will set me right on this, but I believe it means that an offence will still be committed even if liability is accepted?


CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin