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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:57 pm 
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Courtesy 'Upfront' Magazine

The Cumbrian Way

The views expressed in this column are not very likely to be the views of the National Taxi Association!

‘I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order’
Eric Morecambe



Bewilderment is a good word, so are incredulity, amazement, wonder. All four words could be used to describe my growing feeling that a business, during the 21st Century can be effectively (or ineffectively) governed by people who don’t really understand it. For the most part the licensed trade is run by complete rank amateurs, and I mean no disrespect in that.

For example, the licensing department in any area has a plethora of things to run, indeed they have recently taken on the mantle of drinks licensing, this is in amongst zoo licensing, sex shops (no connection, well I hope not), street trading, charities, gambling, caravan sites and acupuncture. All this means taxi and PH licensing may take up only a proportion of your LO’s time.

The question really needs asked if the trades deserve this kind of lack of attention. Is it truly fair? Are we getting good value for money? Are licenses issued with duty of care? More importantly, with ever increasing workloads are the public being properly protected?

Further to this, we have councillors on committees. For the most part, they come from all parts of society, housewives, butchers, bakers and shop assistants. Indeed, their prior knowledge of the taxi and private hire trades can basically be summed up as once they actually hired a taxi or saw one on the television!

Throughout the UK, the taxi and PH business is what can only be described as a multi million pound business. It is essential to certain sections of society, an ‘integral link’ in the public transport system.

Yet, as previously stated, it is run (albeit to the best of their abilities), by complete amateurs who have no actual knowledge of the job itself.

Perhaps this is typical of this country. I mean we have a great past history of having quaint little institutions. Whereas the Americans for example would spend many millions of pounds investing and spending money developing Jet Engines, that isnt the British way, we think its far better to leave it to a bloke who works in the shed in his back garden.

It seems complete madness.

As I have stated before in other trade journals, I cannot imagine a company such as Tesco or Asda permitting a housewife to run their logistics department, a housewife who meets her fellow housewives on a monthly basis, to discuss how many cans of soup need taken to the Aberdeen store, in between knitting woollen pullovers.

So far as disciplining drivers is concerned, we have the same housewives being responsible. Whereas in a normal job, if your bosses suspended you without pay for two weeks you’d have some kind of recourse through ACAS or similar. In our trade you have a bunch of amateurs telling you off for going through a red light or speed camera, and you’ll get your name in the local paper with a record your council will keep for the rest of your life.

This industry is actually quite complex. I mean even those of us who have been involved in it most of our lives still don’t really comprehend some of the law. So what chance has a licensing officer who has responsibility for not only taxis and private hire, but also a multitude of other licensing matters? Indeed, what chance has a councillor?

At this point you start to cringe as any taxi driver sitting on a taxi rank will tell you, or indeed any PH driver waiting for a radio job on a cold and frosty January morning will advise. There’s a distinct equilibrium (that’s a great word that means balance) that means the difference between too many vehicles and not enough. Not enough means waiting passengers, too many means waiting taxis and private hire.

Speaking with a colleague only this week he told me it was quiet on the ranks, but he’d make up the shortfall with working an additional few hours. The local authority doesn’t seem to grasp that this is what we do, we work longer hours when times are quiet.

When a local authority consider numbers of taxis, they don’t seem able to comprehend if they actually make a bad decision the results are irreversible. It’s not as if they can take licenses off people.

There is no physical proof either way that deregulation actually solves anything.

Indeed, perhaps someone somewhere should actually look into it and see what the actual as opposed to the perceived benefits are, because that would be a lot more use than completely ruining something people know little about.

Further to this, perhaps the same study should look into rank spaces. It seems absurd that a council can issue 1000 hackney licenses and then not provide anywhere for them to stand for hire.

I was recently advised by one cab driver that he believed competition was good and that he had conservative free market principles, he therefore didn’t see why plates needed capped. If that’s his belief then fine, yet we are still under a perhaps faltering misimpression that we are a service, free market principles and service are two opposites that can never seemingly attract.

A service is being available even in times of low demand, a free market operates to demand, indeed, I would argue if we were a totally free market then we should be able to charge accordingly. Further to this, in a completely free deregulated market the vendor (which in the case of us is taxis) should be controlled by the demands of the passenger, we develop and improve because the market demands it.

It just goes to show how much the government and local authorities believe in free market principles, when they still require control of the licenses.

On January 1st I went into work to do the accounts. I was faced by an operator who had two vehicles working out of a 40-vehicle fleet. The self-employed drivers quite naturally worked the busy New Year’s Eve, which in owner-driver heaven is understandable supply and demand the free market principle. Yet, the service offered the next day was appalling, it wasn’t so much a service as a damage limitation exercise.

Finally, and just to worry the hell out of you all over there in the North East. As you will be aware, there seems to be a significant number of taxis licensed in Eden (Penrith) District being used over there. Last week the local authority in Penrith decided a person with six penalty points, two convictions for common assault (in December 04) and a serious allegation against him by a licensing officer from Carlisle was fit and proper enough to be licensed. Sleep well.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:42 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Courtesy 'Upfront' Magazine

The Cumbrian Way

The views expressed in this column are not very likely to be the views of the National Taxi Association!

‘I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order’
Eric Morecambe


Bewilderment is a good word, so are incredulity, amazement, wonder. All four words could be used to describe my growing feeling that a business, during the 21st Century can be effectively (or ineffectively) governed by people who don’t really understand it. For the most part the licensed trade is run by complete rank amateurs, and I mean no disrespect in that.

For example, the licensing department in any area has a plethora of things to run, indeed they have recently taken on the mantle of drinks licensing, this is in amongst zoo licensing, sex shops (no connection, well I hope not), street trading, charities, gambling, caravan sites and acupuncture. All this means taxi and PH licensing may take up only a proportion of your LO’s time.

The question really needs asked if the trades deserve this kind of lack of attention. Is it truly fair? Are we getting good value for money? Are licenses issued with duty of care? More importantly, with ever increasing workloads are the public being properly protected?

Further to this, we have councillors on committees. For the most part, they come from all parts of society, housewives, butchers, bakers and shop assistants. Indeed, their prior knowledge of the taxi and private hire trades can basically be summed up as once they actually hired a taxi or saw one on the television!

Throughout the UK, the taxi and PH business is what can only be described as a multi million pound business. It is essential to certain sections of society, an ‘integral link’ in the public transport system.

Yet, as previously stated, it is run (albeit to the best of their abilities), by complete amateurs who have no actual knowledge of the job itself.


From what I can gather this article of yours echoes many of my views regarding councillors. I think where we part on the issue, is that you wish to see the continuation of the present policy, whereas I wan't to remove it completely.

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:51 pm 
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JD wrote:

From what I can gather this article of yours echoes many of my views regarding councillors. I think where we part on the issue, is that you wish to see the continuation of the present policy, whereas I wan't to remove it completely.

Regards

JD


I think the decision making process needs addressed, more specifically those who make the decisions need qualifications, however, as you will gather from others I am merely one voice.

I have thought in the past about regional centres....such as the VOSA set up....but I cannot get away from thinking of the differences between Manchester and Waberthwaite.

The issues of enforcement also make me cringe. Given the standard of some people operating on 'O' licenses.

regards

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:57 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Quote:
The recent request from Carlisle TOA to restrict numbers highlights the firm policy of the NTA in that respect but it also highlights the fact that Carlisle TOA and every other TOA would not be able to request such a policy if licensing was in the hands of national and regional bodies. In other words the NTA and every other organisation would be impotent in that respect and for a change they would have to concentrate their minds on appealing to the whole of the Taxi trade, instead of just a minority.


Your deliberately trying to fall out with me aren't you :lol:


I can only tell it how it is and the fact is, that Carlisle TOA tried to get the local council to re restrict numbers. I don't blame them for that because we live in a democracy and they have the right to try and convince their council what they believe is in their best interest and the interest of their members?

Therefore the fact that Carlisle made the request is not the point in question. The actual point in question is the policy of the NTA, I know you keep telling us that the NTA is an opt in association of local TOA's but in the case of Carlisle it would appear by the report that the local TOA likes to think it is the National Association? Or do I have that completely wrong?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:27 pm 
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Quote:
Therefore the fact that Carlisle made the request is not the point in question. The actual point in question is the policy of the NTA, I know you keep telling us that the NTA is an opt in association of local TOA's but in the case of Carlisle it would appear by the report that the local TOA likes to think it is the National Association? Or do I have that completely wrong?


Carlisle TOA have the same address, and email address and telephone number, I am certain the new secretary will change this in due course, but until January 07 the new secretary was merely an acting secretary (if that makes any sense).

I hope this clarifies the situation.

regards

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:36 pm 
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So JD one licensing regime, have you ever thought that what might be sensible in a town like say Carlisle would be pure LUNACY in London.Centralisation dosnt work in this scenario,Local democracy is the only solution, the only reason you dislike it is because you fail to understand the political arena. Those that opt out and ignore the necessity of political activity are those entirely responsible for its chaotic reality.No other Major industry ignores the Political arena, they form lobbying bodies,they donate to political parties, The CBI, Institute of Directors, Local Chambers of Commerce in the main represent Business owners, what is apparent is not many cab companies involve themselves.
Of course the drivers both Hack and Phv are equally guilty of this short sightedness, In London proprietors and the GMB have on mutually agreed issues started to work together Politicaly GMB can and does open many doors this we do under the auspicies of the PHB. We believe if the industry and its workers are to prosper Politcal organisation is essential we aim to unionise and politisce it. Let no-one misinterprate this statement our organisational and political clout will be used against proprietors if we deem it necessary.
DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The views expressed by this contributor do not neccesarily reflect the policys of The GMB Nationally or of the GMB London Region.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:09 pm 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
So JD one licensing regime, have you ever thought that what might be sensible in a town like say Carlisle would be pure LUNACY in London.


The city of London was never in my thoughts as coming under the jurisdiction of one licensing authority. My reference is to those authorities that come under the act of 1847. Besides, we already have one licensing regime for hackney carriages it is called the 1847 Town police clauses act but instead of it being administered by a handful of regions, it is administered by 343 regions. Each region has its own idiosyncrasies that they call conditions of license, which they can dream up anytime they like and use them as a means to create their own legislation. Now I'm not saying you prefer this but you certainly want to retain the structure that allows it. I don't, and I would guess that the majority of Taxis drivers in this country are of the same opinion?

If you want to have a regime where you constantly have to try and convince a councillor that you should be granted something then that is your prerogative but I prefer a system where the ground rules are already laid down and we all know where we stand and what we can and cannot do?

You give me one good reason why councillors should have control over Taxi licensing and what they do better than a professional body could not do?

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Because they are ANSWERABLE,Professional body such as what the BMA theres more crooks in Harley St than Dartmoor Prison.Professional bodies mean self interest, corruption, abuses,they will be controlled by the exploiters, and definetely deny access to the likes of you and me. Dont forget im talking about PHV and Hack you seem to ignore that!!!!!!!!!!DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The views expressed by this contributor do not neccesarily reflect the policys of The GMB Nationally or of the GMB London Region.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:35 pm 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
Because they are ANSWERABLE,Professional body such as what the BMA theres more crooks in Harley St than Dartmoor Prison.Professional bodies mean self interest, corruption, abuses,they will be controlled by the exploiters, and definetely deny access to the likes of you and me. Dont forget im talking about PHV and Hack you seem to ignore that!!!!!!!!!!DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Bloody hell, I just found myself agreeing with you on two posts, I need a rather large Scotch . :mrgreen:

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:57 pm 
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Try taking the tablets in the right order MR T :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:01 pm 
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MrT behave yourself i ll never get to heaven now with you on my side.Dont spoil it death to the Royal scum up the republic.
By the way what scotch is your poison, my old man swore by Johnny Walker black label, cant stand scotch meself mines Cuba Libre.
OUR DAY WILL COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The views expressed by this contributor do not neccesarily reflect the policys of The GMB Nationally or of the GMB London Region.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:31 am 
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By the way what scotch is your poison...All :wink:

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am 
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GMB Branch secretary wrote:
Because they are ANSWERABLE,


Which professional body did you have in mind when you said councillors are answerable? I hope it isn't the Standards Board because they only deal with ethical standards? I suppose you could say the Ombudsman but that’s stretching it a little far, the only other group of people I can think of to which councillors are answerable, are the electorate. A fat lot of good that will do taxi drivers.

I'll ask again, give me one good reason why councillors should have control over Taxi licensing and what they do better that a professional Transport body cannot do?


Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:34 pm 
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JD. In 2001 I spent two weeks arguing with faceless people in The DFT regarding whether or not it was legal to fit CCTV in the hackneys in Sefton. the end result was that I was passed from pillar to post and told that I needed to take Sefton Council to court, I then went and spoke to the licensing committee, normal everyday people who understood how the cameras could help regarding the driver safety, one Meeting at local level, :wink: oh and by the way attacks on drivers have decreased dramatically and the CCTV footage of attacks has been used to prosecute the offenders, :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:44 pm 
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MR T wrote:
JD. In 2001 I spent two weeks arguing with faceless people in The DFT regarding whether or not it was legal to fit CCTV in the hackneys in Sefton. the end result was that I was passed from pillar to post and told that I needed to take Sefton Council to court, I then went and spoke to the licensing committee, normal everyday people who understood how the cameras could help regarding the driver safety, one Meeting at local level, :wink: oh and by the way attacks on drivers have decreased dramatically and the CCTV footage of attacks has been used to prosecute the offenders, :wink:


Two things I'd like to point out Trevor. Why didn't you go to Sefton council before you approached the DfT, the council is your first port of call and furthermore the DfT can't force such a policy on the council? Second, if Sefton or any other council didn't have charge of licensing, CCTV would not be an issue because we could all install CCTV under the present guidelines of the DPA, without a councillor's permission. So you have made out a very good case why councils should not have control of licensing.

Terry mentioned about lobbying councillors to get things done, the fact is that Cab drivers don't want to compete with different factions in lobbying for the favours of councillors we want rules that are written down in black and white so we know where we stand and they can't be manipulated by spineless councillors. We don't want idiots telling us we cant wear this and we cant wear that or we cant fly the flag in support of our national football team or wear a shirt emblazoned with the three lions logo. Etc.

You talk about the need to gain the confidence of councillors but in my licensing world there would be no need to gain anyone's confidence because the rules will be plain and simple. There is no earthly reason why councillors should have control over Taxi licensing and you just emphasised that point.

Regards

JD


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