Taxi Driver Online

You must live in the land of milk and honey.

_________________
IDFIMH

well i know a few cows!

but no scare stories to report,

our income is up due to the local TOA.

the total number of licensed vehicles has not changed

the former private hire drivers and owners still use their radios

our plates are worth sweet FA, but afterall a plate belongs to the council anyway

no suicides, no bankruptcies, no marriages on the rocks (well not that could be associated to de-limitation anyway)

regards

Captain Cab

It sure does Sussex it sure does, ask the lads in Watford about it.

Who knows what may happen in the future? But at present the licensed vehicles picking up from Watford station aren't taxis.

_________________
IDFIMH

To obtain definition of the term "Private Land" you will find that it is not a case of vision, but is defined by the road traffic act in and confirmed in the section on insurance requirements. "...any place where the public have free acess and thoroughfare [is not private land] and is not fenced off or ingress prevented by gates or otherwise secured to prevent public entry.

To my reading, that makes a Supermarket car park a "Public Place" requiring full RTA insurance cover and as a consequence, making it illegal for PH to rank up there.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

yes thats right they call them touts.

no Andy that aint the definition at all, public land is land adopted at the publics expense and adopted by the local highway authority.

anything not adopted is private land including airports rail stations and most supermarkets

Read the insurance requirements of the road traffic act. It is quite clear that you can be prosecuted for driving in Tesco's car park with no insurance, no licence etc etc etc. Thus, road traffic act must apply to these areas.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

I will quote what James Button says in his book, on this issue.

As a result (of previous High Court judgments), the simple question of where the vehicle is parked is too crude a an indicator as to whether or not it is plying for hire. It will ultimately be a matter of fact and degree as to whether a vehicle is plying for hire.This will need to take into account it's appearance, whether it is visible, where it is parked, whether the driver is present and also, if there is a conversation between the driver and a prospective passenger, the content of that exchange. What is clear is merely parking or stopping a non-hackney carriage, even in company with other vehicles, whether they are hackney carriages or not, is not sufficient to constitute plying for hire.

_________________
IDFIMH

Yup. Cannot disagree with that Sussex. I was making the point that private land is not necessarily private in the eyes of the law, if the public are allowed access to it.

You cannot ban a PH motor from parking fer chrisakes.

However, ranking up outside a Safeway stores might be indicative of something more than merely parking.

My last company had an office with a drive that led out onto the High Street. Obviously, it was, in effect, a Private Hire rank, irrespective of the fact that Hacks and PH mixed in the line waiting for thier next job. However, customers had to actually go in the office to book their cab, so in fact, it was not classed as a rank at all.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

I asked our LO about this.
He said if there was a barrier bewteen the PH and the streeyts. Then the PH are ok.
Also if people are free to wander all over the private land from the public land. Then the PH might not be OK.
He also said it applies to taxis as well.

so how do we stand if come march we de-regulated then fine nothing we can do but if not what can be done it is taking work from hc's th LA is not interested

Do you know Jim Button, Sussex? He learn't his trade here in Manchester. Back in the early nineties we educated Jim on the finer points of Taxi licensing and the law as it should be applied. He is down on record as saying Manchester has the most knowledgable Taxi trade in the country. If you ever get to talk to him ask him about his experiances in Manchester.

Best wishes

John Davies.

With regard to private land and the definition of plying for hire on private land there is prior case law to the Eastborne case, which incidently I havent read.

Several years ago I did a submission to the local council about Manchester Airport and its definition of private land also one about British Rail private land, which at the time was Rail Track. It consisted of case law which defined the legal status of Private land under the Road Traffic act. One of the cases I quoted was the Birmingham Airport case where it was ruled that any road on private land which allowed unrestricted access to common vehicles then that road under the Transport act is deamed a public road.

The exception being that any road which has a barrier across it for the purpose of restricting common public access shall be deemed private.

The Birmingham case centered around a Hackney driver from I think a neighbouring authority who picked up at Birmingham Airport, he tried to say that the road was public, but becauase the road had a barrier across it the road was deemed by the Judge to be private.

There is other case law determining what consitutes a public road on private land. It is quite interesting reading.

There was a case quite a while ago about plying for hire on private land where a gentleman placed a for hire sign in his front garden and his car on the driveway. He was inviting the public off the street to hire him and his vehicle. I have both cases somewhere if I can find them I'll post them.

It is illegal for anyone to ply for hire on private land that is the message of the Judgement laid down. A road on Private land which has a Barrier across it with the purpose to restrict public access is deemed a private road under the Transport act. Any road on private land which does not restrict public access is deemed a public road.

Unless I'm not up to daate with the case law on this subject those rulings apply today.

If you want to know about standing and plying for hire on Railway land then I reccomend you read the Cardif Case. I think this was the first Case ever to be brought with regard to a Taxi Plying for hire illegally on railway land.

Best wishes

John Davies.
Manchester.

Yes I agree with most of what you have posted John.

The barrier point is an extremely important point, but the way I view the current law, is that a barrier is not always necessary.

Take airports, some are supplied by PH. Now if there was a barrier then no-one would be able to get into the airport.

On these issues, the out of sight reasoning come into play. Providing of course Joe Public from the public highway can't see those 'ranked up'.

It's a very interesting subject (for some), but clouded in greyness. Which is why only a few cases ever make court, when in reality, these things are happening throughout the country.

_________________
IDFIMH