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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Radioman wrote:
smiffyz (geoff) wrote:
Vido recorder.
http://www.jacksons-camping.co.uk/videotv/video.htm

Camera.
http://www.henrys.co.uk/cctv/bullet.htm

really easy to fit just a 12v fused supply and the video fits in the glove box or boot, The camera is just a plug and play device, i have it fitted on the u/s of my rear view mirror so i can turn it in any direction (handy if someones kicking off at your door etc. On long play it records for 8hrs in full colour and it works really well in minimal light.


and it could also be totally and utterly usless in court with the CPS or the PF.


Yes it could, but it's been used once by the police for a conviction of DD on a female who overtook me and knocked a cyclist off his bike.
TBH, it works great as a deterrent, you cant miss te sign when you get in.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Radioman wrote:
and it could also be totally and utterly usless in court with the CPS or the PF.

Are you saying that the police can't use evidence from CCTV cameras in or on private houses? :?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:38 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Radioman wrote:
and it could also be totally and utterly usless in court with the CPS or the PF.

Are you saying that the police can't use evidence from CCTV cameras in or on private houses? :?


Sussex,

Have a chat with some of the CCTV system suppliers. They have had to prove to the police and authorities that the system is secure i.e. no one can access the images and tamper with them.

Also not all councils have authoried CCTV to be fitted to Taxi/PHV. Glasgow Council will not allow it, not sure of what other councils there are that have said no.

regards


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:56 pm 
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I agree the preferred CCTV by many councils is the CD system that can only be viewed by those in authority.

It's just that from my experience they are the dearest. :sad:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:51 am 
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Dundee drivers have just been given the green light to install CCTV.

The article in the local press said that the images go to a digital card and that only Tayside Police can download the images.

The trade rep said that the gear cost about £600 because the equipment had to have infrared and sound.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:11 am 
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This has been through so many times on various sites, an expert can tell if a recording has been tampered with quite easily. The police use video cctv for convictions all the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:04 pm 
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The issue is perhaps more to do with privacy than admissability of evidence in court.

An LA may specify certain conditions as regards the system used, but this may have nothing to do with whether or not the images can be used as evidence in a criminal case.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:58 pm 
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TDO wrote:
The issue is perhaps more to do with privacy than admissability of evidence in court.

An LA may specify certain conditions as regards the system used, but this may have nothing to do with whether or not the images can be used as evidence in a criminal case.


Yes, and thats why signs should be displayed including the rear to avoid the pc brigade. (not pc as in police constable :wink: )


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:28 pm 
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TDO wrote:
The issue is perhaps more to do with privacy than admissability of evidence in court.

An LA may specify certain conditions as regards the system used, but this may have nothing to do with whether or not the images can be used as evidence in a criminal case.


I thought it was when the recording media was digital rather than video then it came under the Data Protection Act , but I could well be wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:03 pm 
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Quote:
Sheffield invested £7000 the racial abuse attacks were cut down from one in every seven journeys to one in every hundred.

Do you have any idea as to how the investment was distributed ? and what costs were you involved in ?


i've seen a copy of the report when i was down in sheffield Town Hall
and photcopied some of it. its dated feb 2007 on front cover
i'll type it up over the weekend and past it on here 4 ya


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:07 pm 
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This I quote from Sheffield local taxi website, a reply given by Andy Christian, the chap organising the camera scheme. Not everybody benefited, but those who did are well pleased.

Andy Christian wrote:
In the light of some of the comments I would like to clear up a few possible misunderstandings. The issue of fitting security cameras in Sheffield taxis has been around for years, in fact it was as early as 2003 when the council devised it's policy on taxi cameras - in conjunction with interested parties including the taxi representative organisations. Despite it being on the agenda for so long, not one single camera had been fitted (or at least no permission to fit a camera had been applied for) until this project started. This, despite there being rumours of people getting grants to fit cameras. This project was not initiated by the Council's Taxi Licensing Deprtment but by the Sheffield Safer Communities Partnership - Violent Crime Theme Group - who provided the �7,000 funding for the pilot in recognition of the abuse, threats and violence suffered by taxi drivers. The apparent unequal split between Black cab and Private Hire was determined by: (a) cost - in the 'pilot' it cost over three times as much for black cab ( 2 cameras fitted) than for Private Hire (1 camera fitted); and (b) taking into account the proximity of the fare to the driver. For the purposes of the 'pilot' we wanted to get as many cameras out there as possible to get the best evaluation but also to cover both types of vehicle. The selection of drivers to be involved in the project was left to the two Sheffield taxi associations. The cameras were supplied at no cost to the drivers, in exchange for them keeping extensive records of their experiences with fares, before and after the cameras were fitted. Sheffield is the latest in a number of cities and towns where taxis have cameras fitted - all - including the Sheffield 'pilot' - show massive improvement in passenger behaviour and driver safety. The next phase of the Sheffield project, having proved that cameras do make a very significant difference, is to encourage a wider take up by drivers. I understand that the vast majority of drivers are self employed and as such can claim any cost of fitting a camera against tax - it will therefore cost them nothing in the long run! There are a great number of suppliers in the market offering different system - cost can range from thousands of pounds down to around �180 - dependent on the type of vehicle. Some suppliers are considering putting together finance deals and others will hire the equipment (hire cost also claimable against tax). The systems in this 'pilot' are on the market for around �800 for the Cygnus black cab system and around �200 for the Autocab Private Hire system - but I am sure you could get a better deal if you got together to make a bulk purchase. Whilst I am aware of some of the history and tensions between taxi drivers and the Council, this 'pilot' is a genuine attempt to improve driver safety with a very limited amount of money - and may I repeat - the first time anyone has done anything like this in Sheffield. I have absolutely no commercial interest in cameras being installed in taxi - but please feel free to contact me is you have any questions as I have taken the led on the project. Andy Christian - Andy.Christian@sheffield.gov.uk

There have been the regular accusations of friends being looked after, but who knows?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:15 pm 
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Andy Christian wrote:
The apparent unequal split between Black cab and Private Hire was determined by: (a) cost - in the 'pilot' it cost over three times as much for black cab ( 2 cameras fitted) than for Private Hire (1 camera fitted); and (b) taking into account the proximity of the fare to the driver.

Very surprising that. :?

I don't think I have ever come across a taxi/PH CCTV with two cameras. You have to wonder if that's really necessary. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Is Mr Christian saying that an unequal split in favour of black cabs was determined by greater danger to the black cab driver or is he saying that that factor was more favourable to the PH trade?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:28 pm 
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STF wrote:
I understand that the vast majority of drivers are self employed and as such can claim any cost of fitting a camera against tax - it will therefore cost them nothing in the long run!


That's a fallacy but it also seems to be a view widely held in the trade.

If you spent £1,000 on a system then you would get tax relief on this but that would be at the rate you pay tax on - so if you pay tax at 20% then you would save £200 in tax, thus the system would still cost you £800.

(Another way of looking at this is that it would reduce your profits by £1,000, so your tax bill would be reduced by the tax you would pay on that £1,000, which at 20% is £200)

Another point to remember is that the cost of the system would be spread over several year, so you wouldn't get the full tax saving for several years.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:27 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Andy Christian wrote:
The apparent unequal split between Black cab and Private Hire was determined by: (a) cost - in the 'pilot' it cost over three times as much for black cab ( 2 cameras fitted) than for Private Hire (1 camera fitted); and (b) taking into account the proximity of the fare to the driver.

Very surprising that. :?

I don't think I have ever come across a taxi/PH CCTV with two cameras. You have to wonder if that's really necessary. :?


Sussex as usual your years behind the times, I have cabs that have three cameras not just two, number one records everything that happens in the vehicle, number two is forward-facing and Records everything that the driver sees ( very useful in an accident) No 3 faces through the rear windscreen and records everything from behind, this is worked through a splitter box( it allows you to use four cameras at once) the screen shows four pictures at once( or you can select any one of the cameras) for example you can select your rear camera, which then allows you to use the screen for reversing, plus of course we have sound, simple really when you think about it.

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