Taxi Driver Online

Every PSV must have an operator.

So who/what/where is the operator in this self driver lark?

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IDFIMH

Doesn't PSV stand for PUBLIC SERVICE VEHICLE. There are many places that a minibus can be hired for self drive where the driver does not even have to have a PSV license. In fact if I want to hire a minibus for a trip to Wembley and drive 15 of my mates down there I don't need anything other than my car licence. So do these companies that hire out minibuses for self drive have to have operators licenses because they are clearly not themselves carrying passengers for hire or reward?
So moving on, if one of these companies that hires out minibuses for self drive decides to hire out say Hummers under the same scheme and the person who hires the Hummer is going to drive himself and take his mates to Wembley, is this ok? He is not going to hire a chauffeur and he is not being paid by his mates.

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Grandad,

.These companies wont let you drive it yourself, fact, and it is not free for mates its an everyday hire & reward, and not a one off.
you dont support unlicensed cabs or limos these spivs are no different.
Totaly unregulated

Woh. I have asked the question above. Don't jump ahead yet. What is the answer to the above question as written?

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Grandad,

OK, this is very complicated, so we will have to take it one step at a time.

Please bear in mind that almost all the regs,opinions,court precedents etc that apply to hc/ph i.e. 8 passenger seats and under do NOT apply to vehicles with 9 passenger seats and over. Close inspection will reveal slightly different wording.

There are lots of exceptions that you really do need to look very closely at the detail to try to answer the question. For example the case of "Execellent Connections" and the complete farce of that company being hauled before THREE different Traffic Commisioner's all with different opinion's until finally one said "There is no case that would cause me to call this operator to public enquiry". The case is covered elswhere on TDO I think mostly with ref to Manchester Airport, so I will not dwell on that any further.
Now to Grandads Question.

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you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

First of all, there are many places that you can hire a minibus from, it is up to you as the hirer to ensure that you comply with any laws relating to its use.
If you want to take 15 mates out in one there would be no problem from what you describe BUT!!!!! here is the rub. If you pay for everything for the hire you will be ok but if your mates contribute in ANY way to the hire (this could be cash for fuel, paying for your ticket into a venue, buying you a meal etc) it will almost definetly mean hire & reward exists.

Taken from psv437

2 WHAT IS HIRE OR REWARD?
Hire or reward is any sort of payment which gives a person a right to be carried on a vehicle
regardless of whether a profit is made or not. The payment may be made by the person
himself, or on his behalf and may be a direct payment (such as a fare or other payment
made directly in respect of the journey) or an indirect payment (such as a membership
subscription to a club, payment for a bed in a hotel, school fees or payment for concert
tickets). Although such indirect payments are usually made in respect of other services
(rather than for transport) they are nonetheless viewed by the courts as hire or reward
because anyone who had not made the payment would have no right to be carried.


Now in theory if you pay for everything and hire someone to drive it for you, then hire & reward does not exist, the reason being that IF you pay for everything none of your mates "has a right to be carried" they are only carried at your invitation.

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you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

But if you gain some kind of reward then you are acting illegally, and I bet you a pound to a penny any insurance that comes with that minibus will state you can't use it for hire and reward.

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IDFIMH

Are you saying that 'Execellent Connections' didn't/don't have a PSV ops license?

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IDFIMH

I disagree, surely the driver is driving a vehicle for hire and reward?

But that still doesn't answer the ops question. Or are you saying you can run a PSV without a PSV ops license?

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IDFIMH

It is the carrying of passengers for hire or reward that requires the license not the driving of the vehicle.

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Grandad,

Both, and somewhere along the way there must also be a licensed operator.

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IDFIMH

The scenario as written is not hire or reward or anything else. I still say that there is no requirement for a company that hires out minibuses to have an "o" license.

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Grandad,

You will never get a straight answers from any limo op that carries over 8
O Licence what's one of them?

Just the same as Normal Greed Greed Greed

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Limousine Driver

Sorry, where did this end up about a limo

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you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

Yes they did have a licence but still got battered about because someone "thought" it wasn't kosher but it was!!.

You cannot just take one line from somewhere to make it fit whatever argument you want it to.

The point I was trying to make is: it is not as simple as it first may appear, we have to first see if using a common everyday vehicle that we all know i.e. Ford transit is possible to use. The van hire firms will let them out to you, it is the DRIVER who is responsible for ensuring compliance with the law just as it is with speeding,parking etc.

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you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.