Taxi Driver Online

Several Months ago I wrote an article on behalf of TDO in respect of the issues highlighted by Newcastle licensing department about what they see as cross border hiring. The article can be found on TDO and I believe there is already a thread debating the subject.

I suppose the following article from the Evening chronicle explains the latest developments of the situation but for us on TDO the situation is still the same? We have Newcastle council sabre rattling and Berwick council saying do your worse.

I said in my article that the only way Newcastle council were going to get satisfaction is to take this issue to court. The question is will they win? The answer to that is no they wont.

However it just goes to show how ignorant Newcastle council is in respect of the law and also those in the Taxi trade who support them.

As always, we on TDO tell it how it is, if you want brainwashing then there are plenty of websites out there that are only too willing to fill your head with nonsence.
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EVENING CHRONICLE (Newcastle, UK)

June 8, 2007 Friday

HEADLINE: Taxis row may go to court

BYLINE: By Peter Young, The Evening Chronicle

A battle over cabbies getting cut-price licences in Berwick then plying for trade on Tyneside may end up in court.

Newcastle City Council has condemned the practice and is asking Berwick Council to call a halt or face legal action.

Officials, backed by cabbies' leaders, say they are concerned about public safety because they have no control over the vehicles.

The move also means more cabs are on to the streets of Newcastle in contravention of a restriction on numbers set by the city council.

If the dispute is not settled, the city council is threatening to seek a judicial review, which means the case will be decided by a judge.

Drivers can obtain a hackney carriage or private-hire licence in Berwick for around £125, plus a £57.15 test fee for the vehicle.

In Newcastle, hackney carriage licences cost £318 and private-hire licences £315. Vehicle test costs are on top.

Officials reckon that 62 hackney carriage vehicle proprietors' licences obtained in Berwick have addresses in Newcastle, and another 32 have addresses in North Tyneside.

Newcastle Council claims Berwick is acting unlawfully, wants the practice is stopped and existing licences are revoked.

But Berwick Council says it cannot refuse an application simply because people may then use the licences outside the borough.

Coun Anita Lower, Newcastle's executive member for regulation, said: "We have a lot of concerns about cars and drivers not licensed in Newcastle working in Newcastle. Local residents have a right to expect the standards we've set on matters, such as vehicle checks, are adhered to."

A Berwick Council spokesman said: "In order to licence a person as a driver the council must be satisfied that the person is a fit and proper person and operating outside the borough cannot, in our opinion, make a person unsuitable. All licensed vehicles meet the council's current safety standards."

Another concern is that drivers do not have to take the Newcastle "knowledge" test and some of the cabbies are said to be from Poland with little command of the English language.

Chris Chandler, regional chairman of the National Taxi Association and a member of Newcastle Owner Drivers' Association, said local cabbies back the action being taken by Newcastle Council.

He said the Berwick-licensed cabbies are plying for trade in places such as Newcastle city centre, Whitley Bay and Tynemouth.

"The main concern is one of public safety," said Mr Chandler. "There is a limit on the number of licences issued because surveys show there are sufficient taxis in Newcastle and North Tyneside."
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I daresay Newcastle council is fully aware of the law but perhaps they're merely huffing and puffing to make it look as if it's Berwick to blame. And, of course, in truth there's prima facie not much Berwick can do about it.

Seems more about politics than anything else, but what they really should be doing is getting together and saying that it's the legislation that's at fault rather than particular councils.

Of course, I doubt if the Newcastle trade or council want wholesale change, so that's mabye why they're trying to shif the blame to another council rather than undermine the legislation.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Well that's bullocks if the cars are only doing PH work.

The crux of the issue is probably how do Berwick HC entry requirments compare to Newcastle PH requirements?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

You hit the nail right on the head but if you can reason this out, then why can't others?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The thing is the more Newcastle go on about cheaper cars from elsewhere, the more the folks in Newcastle will use them.

Quite look forward to a Judicial Review on this though.

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IDFIMH

Could it be that Newcastle cc are overcharging for licences in the first place, and if they go to court they may be forced to reduce the fee's
The question to ask is how one council can perform all the legal requirements to licence a cab at a vastly reduced rate, operators in Newcastle and surrounding area's, need to be putting that to there council

I think there is more to this than meets the eye .................. Berwick upon Tweed plates have been seen working under PH contracts as far away as South Wales.

The fact remains that these vehicles and drivers are working in contravention of their local by-laws ............. and there is no way that they will be caught as Berwick Enforcement don't come to Newcastle and Newcastle enforcement cannot enforce Berwicks by-laws.

It should also be mentioned that it has been suggested that Berwick Council have an approved testing station in Newcastle for their cars working out of area ................. oh and it should also be highlighted that Berwick Council are taking at least £11,750 per year WITHOUT providing any enforcement and therefore incurring costs. (those figures are based on the vehicles licensed in Newcastle and North Tyneside and the licensing fee without vehicle tests. it does not include vehicles working elsewhere or drivers who don't live in either Newcastle or North Tyneside.)

The number of HC vehicles working in an area is irrelevant in this case (as these cars are working PH) however Public Safety is the concern .................. and any council should be able to check the fitness and propriety of anyone working under licence in their area. There should also be a commitment from the issuing authority that they are checking the vehicles and drivers intermittently throughout the year to ensure everything is as it should be ................ after all that's why we pay a licensing fee.

I must say that people who share the opinion of JD and Sussex (amongst others) that councils should have the responsibility removed from them will show this action by Berwick as one that has legal standing and will encourage support towards councils who don't take the responsibility of the licensing function seriously in order to then highlight their shortcomings as a reason to remove responsibility from them.

The public in Newcastle should be assured that if they get into a taxi or PH vehicle in Newcastle that it has been checked and meet the standards of Newcastle City Council ................ as well as the driver of it.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

The Berwick licencing officer does periodically check all licenced taxis, and ph, and sends all operators letters stating that he wants to see them at an appointed time and place, and if you don't turn up he calls you, and reminds you your licence will be suspended until he has inspected the cab

That's not the issue here. The point is nobody is checking the state of these vehicles or drivers, or what they are doing while they are out of their area. In many of these cases the cabs are only in Berwick's licenced area for routine testing or when summonsed by their LO, maybe 2 or 3 days a year.
We have a similar problem up here with Aberdeenshire taxis working Aberdeen City. The shire don't have a knowledge test and their badge is only about £40. It can be done by post in a few days. Vehicle standards are lower also and there is no requirement to licence a WAV.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Good point, particularly when you consider that bigger authorities should benefit from economies of scale and thus should be able to pass on the savings in terms of lower fees.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

I read on Captain Cab's forum that there are also Berwick-plated taxis operating in Darlington with the meters adjusted to read the Darlington rates.

But councils know best, and the legislation is working just fine.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Interesting, but we don't really know if that is true do we?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I suppose after making such a statement you have the means by which to back it up?

This should be interesting from the GMBU rep.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I'll dig out the details so we can all see what Newcastle council is on about. I wouldn't mind betting there isn't much difference either way.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The standard of vehicles being licensed are quite high.

I saw a VW transporter type thingy conversion....licensed by Berwick 'operating' in North Tyneside as a PH.....the vehicle was the same colour that North tynesides H/C's were, infact the only difference between the N. Tyneside HC & the Berwick HC was the Berwick roofsign....it was a 06 plated vehicle.

The above aside, I understand Berwick accept applications by post and will send you all your liceses by return of post....should save people the bother of going up the A1.

Indeed, they've also opened a test centre in Newcastle...allegedly with a firm called 'Lansdowne'....who incidentally have a PH firm that 'operate' the out of town HC's......can't imagine many failures

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin