Taxi Driver Online

No not atall just advising you in your interest to tread carefully as people get very irate with people that try stirring the brown stuff. I know these companies have nothing to hide which is why there websites are readily available for anyone to view

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

That sounds like a threat, typical of you spives.

TDO asked for companies who operate the schedule 6 scam, I have suppied the info.
and your problem is.........................................

funny people from Plymouth.

Dont be so fookin wet as per usual no tips , its about time you grew up and tried to take a bit of friendly advice!!

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

We have a situation where the driver of the vehicle is payed at the end of the hire which constitutes payment for hire or reward, which is illegal if the vehicle, operator and driver do not hold the appropriate licenses.

I'm afraid no matter what anyone says in relation to this activity in my opinion under its present form it is illegal.

We shall have to wait and see what VOSA do about it.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I think this got lost in my early post as Kermit got upset about his friends being named and shamed


www.carpages.co.uk/news/vosa-20-08-07.asp

at least one got done good & proper....

You really are such a pathetic child no tips, but anyway yes you are right one got done but did he get done for what this thread is about, NO he got done for lots of other things which unfortunately some limo ops are guilty of just like several taxi drivers are also guilty, shall i start a crusade against you lot as i can sure dig up more dirt on your trade than you could ever dig up on us!! Nah that would be dropping myself down to your sad level !!!

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

As you said earlier JD, until it is tested in court!!

But who is going to do it, not the local LA- it's over 8
not VOSA- they haven't got a bloody clue!!
not the police- they haven't got a clue either

Perhaps an insurance company after or during a big claim.

The big problem is with over 8 it falls into PSV, there are so many different catergories that even the Traffic Commisioners don't know, hence the case over recent year's with "Execellent Connections".
They did at least offer a very good service with vehicles less than a year old for the most part. I bought one of their old vehicles a few years ago at 7 months old, very good motor with all service book up to date, ran it for 3 years with no problems.

Then there is the section 19 and 22 operators (a complete joke), add to that a specific licence (restricted) that gives an obvious advantage to anyone who is not running a business carrying passengers.

9 WHAT IS A RESTRICTED LICENCE?
Restricted licences are used by small-scale operators since they only allow the operator to
use one or two vehicles. Neither of these vehicles must be constructed to carry more than:
• 8 passengers; although vehicles carrying up to
• 16 passengers may be used if either:
(a) the vehicles are not used as part of a passenger transport business (eg. they are used
in connection with a hotel business), or
(b) your main job is not the operation of PSVs which are able to carry 9 or more
passengers (ie. the operation of the minibus(es) is a side-line and not your main
occupation).You do not have to satisfy the requirement of professional competence to get a restricted
licence, but all other requirements are the same as for a standard licence. You must apply in
the same way, and obey the same rules.

The above taken from PSV437 direct from VOSA site.

In black & white it says "as a side line" what the f--- is that about

Maybe the schedule 6 limo guys gould get restricted licence for their "Self Drive" hire as they are clearly not in the business of carrying passengers just hiring out vehicles.

JD you need to see one of these contracts, they are the dogs *********

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you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

This particular company were not working to the rules regarding self drive. They were just chancers out to make a killing. Most limo ops who saw them around couldn't wait for them to get done. They got pulled by VOSA twice in one day once.

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Grandad,

Hi everybody thanks no tips for the free plug and a link to our website lets get one thing straight schedule 6 is not a loophole self drive is not a loophole some operators out there may be using it as a loophole the same way as many taxis out there use loopholes to run there taxi companies. The limo compaines like ourselves that have paid many thousands of pounds to hire one of vosas top barristers to make sure that we comply with the rules of self drive and operate within these laws welcome all the free plugs for our limo compaines yes there may be some out there that are not operating within the guidlines the same as there are many taxi firms doing the same perhaps certain people on here should get there facts right before getting finger happy on there keyboards next you will be saying AVIS, HERTZ, etc are using loopholes when hiring there minibuses out, i think the problem lies with many taxi operators and drivers out there think we limo operators are taking work away from them, perhaps if you were nice to people Mr NO TIPS you could change your name to LOTS OF TIPS instead of talking out of your a-se.

There you are JD a proper bone fide shedule 6 operator at your service.
Good evening Mr. A Class, it is good to see someone on here with the first hand knowlege of this system that us ordinary limo ops are a bit short of. Welcome.

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Grandad,

Self Drive hire presumes that the person doing the hiring has a right to drive the vehicle. That is the whole nature and concept of Self Drive. If the person doing the hiring has no legal right to drive the hired vehicle then the nature of the business is not self drive.

By all accounts, these adapted Limousines can only be driven by certain people known to the company who facilitate the Hiring, these same people are unknown to the person undertaking the hiring. Therefore even though the hirer pays for the hire of the vehicle and they have the correct license, they still have no legal right to drive the vehicle under the terms of the contract. Therefore the nature of the business is not one of self drive hire.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I don't think any cab driver subscribing to TDO is really concerned about schedule 6. Schedule 6 is meaningless in the concept of hire or reward. The ingredients of the offence are what matter and not the type of vehicle that commits the offence, so perhaps I should clarify that matter from the outset.

The concept of hire or reward and the test to be applied is whether or not there has been a systematic carrying of passengers which went beyond the bounds of mere social kindness?

For example, whether the carrying becomes a predominantly 'business' arrangement rather than a predominantly social one?

The law states that if the carrying of passengers has acquired such a 'business' character, it is immaterial that neither the driver nor the passenger intended any contractual relationship to result.

The fact that a contract does or doesn't exist is immaterial.

Any driver engaged in the regular and systematic carriage of passengers for which he expects to be paid is in effect operating what might loosely be described as an unofficial taxi service and is therefore engaged in the carriage of passengers for hire or reward.

A vehicle is to be treated as carrying passengers for hire or reward if payment is made for, or for matters which include, the carrying of passengers, irrespective of the person to whom the payment is made and, in the case of a transaction effected by or on behalf of a member of any association of persons (whether incorporated or not) on the one hand and the association or another member thereof on the other hand, notwithstanding any rule of law as to such transactions.

For hire or reward there must be an agreement for the making of a payment in respect of the carriage of passengers which is sufficiently certain in its terms to constitute a legally enforceable contract. However not withstanding the fact that the systematic carriage of passengers for which goes beyond a mere social kindness and for which one is payed in money or kind constitutes a contract whether implied or not.

The purpose of your business activity is to profit from the carriage of passengers and not as you say operate a self drive car hire business. The person paying for the hire of the vehicle is not allowed to drive it even though they may have the required license?

Under those circumstances you are exercising a decree of control on who can drive the vehicle and therefore your approval of the driver is necessary before any hire can take place. Therefore it is you who is deciding the choice of driver and that in my book constitutes supply.

The supply of vehicle is already conceded by you, so you fail the test of hire or reward on both counts.

I would check your insurance policy because as you probably know it is illegal not to have third party cover for carrying passengers for hire or reward.

I would love to see the provisos in your insurance policy in respect of hire or reward because I wouldn't mind betting that it says "the vehicle is not to be used for hire or reward."

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Welcome to the site Mr a Class Limo.

Just so I'm not talking out of my a-se can you just tell me if the vehicle being hired is a licensed PSV vehicle with a blue disc (or orange) in the window?

And is the driver driving the self-drive vehicle a licensed PSV driver?

In relation to the AVIS HERTZ comments are you saying that anyone could hire a minibus from them and drive it for 'hire and reward'?

In relation to your barrister comment it's worth pointing out they always have a 50% failure rate.

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IDFIMH

Its clear to me you don't know what you are talking about if you have a pcv driving licence and you wish to hire and drive one of our limousines the same as if you walk into Avis, Hertz, etc then you can if you do not wish to drive it yourself then you can find and pay a driver to drive it for you as long as the driver holds a pcv licence, as you know Mr John Davies (JD) after your phone calls to certain chauffeur hire companies yesterday they only hire chauffeurs not limousines self drive is not hire and reward we do it right others may not, also last month one of the companies that are doing it right got took to court it lasted 30 mins and was thrown out, perhaps you should spend more time putting things right in the taxi world first before you start getting involved in things you don't know anything about

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!