Taxi Driver Online

Well all I asked was how many archetypes of contractual relationships involving three parties do you know of. Hire or reward is irrelevant and so is every other contractual agreement. I asked you specifically about "Archetypal" contractual relationship which has nothing whatsoever to do with any contractual agreement only the type of arrangement?

At the time of posting I didn't realise the question would present such a problem but perhaps if you had asked me to clarify exactly what I meant then it might have saved you time googling through Bailii looking for meaningless contractual case law on employment?



I don't know about that but when people make a point of stating publicly that they will answer all questions and then proceed to do exactly the opposite then you have to approach the situation somewhat differently.

I gave you three main examples of a tripartite contract and one of them will fit the "categories" of your self drive hire system, which is it?



I agree entirely, if operated within the law self drive hire does not become hire or reward and I have made that perfectly clear but the fact of the matter is, that when I'm offered an unlicensed 15 seater minibus with a driver provided, for "hire or reward" then I'm entitled to form the opinion that the person offering the service may not be operating entirely within the strict confines of the law?

When I'm told by a well known limo company that they can get around the law of providing an unlicensed vehicle to carry 15 passengers by making a phoney wedding hire contract then I'm entitled to believe that they also are breaking the law. However I wasn't aware that the local Government miscellaneous provisions act 1976 extended to vehicles with 15 seats?

When I'm given a shopping list of prices for all types of unlicensed vehicles from an operator who doesn't really care how many passengers he carries then I'm entitled to believe that he is also breaking the law.

When I'm offered a 7 day hire or reward contract for a three hour hire then I'm entitled to believe that the contract is an intentional sham and that it is also outside the law.

Therefore irrespective of the assumption you have that your colleagues are operating perfectly legally, there are obviously limo operators out there who are not. What’s more, the practice is quite blatant and widespread.



Well no one is defending illegal hire or reward activities but I'm surprised that you won't furnish us with a copy of the contracts that have repeatedly been requested by myself and others on this site?

I did ask you to ask your colleagues if they would place a copy of every contractual agreement between "operator and hirer," "driver and hirer" and "driver and operator" on their websites just so we the public can be reassured that we are getting into bone fide licensed vehicles? However as per usual that simple request went unanswered?

Your colleagues obviously believe that best practice is to keep the public uninformed.

I also asked you on several occasions if you had read Albert v MIB and have not yet had an answer. For a man who makes a point of saying he answers all questions I find that rather strange? I will assume you haven't read the case but perhaps you can enlighten us to which case law on hire or reward that you have read? That might be a lot easier for you than beating around the bush in respect of case law you haven't read?

The reason I asked about "Albert" v MIB if you haven't yet worked it out, is the fact that I'm probing your knowledge of the law on "hire or reward", which at the moment I am of the opinion that it is very limited. Perhaps you can prove me wrong?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I suspect that Mr S was castigating the taxi/PH licensing laws and how they're exploited by the shadier elements of the trade long before you guys had even thought of running limos.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Personally I don't care where folks license their vehicles and themselves.

As long as they are licensed.

If someone came to me and said he can't do the local knowledge test, but still wanted to drive a cab, I wouldn't say don't bother about all that licensing lark do as you like, I would say try another area with an easier knowledge.

Amazed you couldn't work that out.

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IDFIMH

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Legal and proud

Loads a love from BERTIE !!

My days are always nice thank you.

But their is a massive difference between those that pull strokes but remain licensed, and those that pull strokes yet remain un-licensed.

The first may be viewed by some as morally wrong, but the second is only viewed by a select few in the limo trade as legally correct.

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IDFIMH

Im surprised a man of your intelligance does,nt understand.

Its easy, so i,ll make it easier.

Company A manufacturers a product but needs to transport it to its destination , problem is they dont have a large enough vehicle so they hire a large vehicle from company B (self drive hire co.) , problem now is the driver they have driving their small delivery vehicle has not the correct license to drive the large vehicle so company A rings company C (driver angency).

So driver from C drives vehicle hired from B for A.

No hire and reward mentioned as you asked or would you like it in Archetypal to limo self drive.

Bulling and intimidation with big words only proves to show that some ppl are using these words through arrogance in the hope it may impress readers with a lesser but perfectly normal vocabulary LIKE THE MAJORITY OF TH UK.
Is it really your intials ??? JD.... or is it a pseudonym for some deep meaningful clue like JD or LLB or perhaps even Juris Doctor ?????

Lets debate using language that most on here will understand thus involving hopefully more opinions and not doing as the law fraternity does to scare the average person with ridiculous babble, it is after all a Taxi forum and not Kings college oxford forum.

Idiot.. Products dont come under hire & reward regs, manufacturers product = haulage ..
passenger transport = hire & reward regs ...

My insurance says the carriage of passengers or goods for hire or reward.
So it would seem that goods can come under hire or reward.
IDIOT

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Grandad,

NO Tips=Bigger Idiot , JD said he was,nt concentrating on the hire or reward point

Read things properly before you post

That just means if you damaged someone's lap-top your insurance would cover it.

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IDFIMH

Sussex , you really must enter the 20th century, you can have your insurance tailored to your needs....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

Well I used to work for a company who used to use taxis to deliver parcels so are you saying that this was wrong.
I would have thought that a passengers computer would be covered anyway.

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Grandad,

So the limo trade thought up the self-drive scam themselves then?

If you want to discuss something contrived by top lawyers to get round complex legislation written by Parliamentary draughtsmen which should in theory by legally watertight then of necessity the debate is going to deal with some pretty complex issues and use some difficult language.

If you can't stand the heat....

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

For me this is not even luke warm but i fear others will lose the whole depth of the topic.

Well here are a few simple questions that you might like to answer.

1 Under the self-drive scheme, and assuming that it's legal, is it possible that a convicted murderer and/or rapist could be driving a limo?

2 Again, and assuming that it's legal, would you agree that the the self-drive scheme goes against the spirit of the legislation, ie that hire and reward vehicles and drivers should be properly checked and vetted?

3 Would you agree that if VOSA staff are telling you about dealings they're having with the public then they're acting unethically in disclosing this and also that your over-familiar relationship with them is clearly not in the public interest?

4 With regard to the above, and given that you said the other day that you didn't mind people knowing who you are, could you please disclose your identity?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk