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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:48 am 
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JD wrote:
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Drivers hours should be regulated.


I don't think so. However desirable that may sound to some, there is no justification for placing such a regulation on self employed Taxi drivers and if there is then I would like to hear it?

Public safety. We have one driver up here who regularly works 16 hours or more 7 days a week. This is more than stupid - it's dangerous.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:04 am 
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gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
Quote:


Drivers hours should be regulated.


I don't think so. However desirable that may sound to some, there is no justification for placing such a regulation on self employed Taxi drivers and if there is then I would like to hear it?

Public safety. We have one driver up here who regularly works 16 hours or more 7 days a week. This is more than stupid - it's dangerous.


For how many of those 16 hours is the driver in relaxation mode? Legislation these days has to be compatible with European legislation and as such European legislation does not place restrictions on Taxi drivers working hours. The reason being is that the work is not constant.

Under the circumstances it would be difficult to make legislation that restricted a driver from driving his vehicle and in any case even under Mr Buttons proposals there would be no prohibtion on the number of hours a driver could drive his vehicle for the use of domestic or pleasure?

We don't read of many incidents involving taxi drivers who have caused accidents by falling asleep, perhaps that is because there aren't many. However I would be interested to know what limit you would put on drivers hours or perhaps in terms of mileage per day?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:58 am 
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gusmac wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Tom Thumb wrote:
Surely the working time directive is on its way. Our drivers are currently given the option to opt out, but I believe that option will disappear.

And the issue discriminates against an employed driver. If you have two drivers sat on the rank , one employed and one self employed, the time sat there will be regarded as 'hours worked' by the employed driver, but 'rest time', not counted, for the self employed.

The reason I can't see it coming into being is not because of any ideological reasoning, but because I can't see how you will get 250,000 licensed drivers currently working 60/70/80/90+ hours suddenly being told to work no-more than 48. :?

If the enforcement folks in this country can't stop the vast amount of illegal limos from working, then what chance of someone getting 250,000 drivers to keep to their hours? :?

And because the gov wont (IMO) bring in a rule which is destined to fail, then I just can't see it happening. :?

All that said, I believe the theory behind it could help out the trade. It's just that 249,999 folks don't see it that way. :wink:
Make that that 249,998. It's not rocket science to work out that if everyone does half as many hours, everyone will be twice as busy when they are working.


How many HC or PH drivers are employed ............... not many.

Therefore the majority of drivers will choose to work when its busy ......... and that in turn will make the line of cars on a rank longer and takings lower.

Remember we are demand responsive ................ the work comes at different levels at different times.

B. Lucky :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:08 am 
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GA wrote:
Therefore the majority of drivers will choose to work when its busy ......... and that in turn will make the line of cars on a rank longer and takings lower.
Then these times will no longer be considered "busy", and the quieter times will seem busier. The market will find it's own level.

    X jobs between Y cabs still = Z jobs per cab.
    What would fall is the waiting time between jobs.


I know it's sound in theory. In practice it won't work.
Drivers will find ways to cheat the system, more cabs will appear or existing cabs will be double or treble shifted.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:21 am 
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JD wrote:
For how many of those 16 hours is the driver in relaxation mode?
Not all that many, the trade is boyant here at the moment.
He should be sponsored by "Red Bull or "Pro Plus" considering the amounts of these products he consumes.

JD wrote:
However I would be interested to know what limit you would put on drivers hours or perhaps in terms of mileage per day?

I wish I had a good answer to this. I don't believe 40 or even 48 hrs is enough in our trade but I am sure that 112+ hours a week is ridiculous.
I fear a backlash against the whole trade up here should a tragedy result and the truth of his working habits came out. :sad:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:08 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
Quote:


Drivers hours should be regulated.


I don't think so. However desirable that may sound to some, there is no justification for placing such a regulation on self employed Taxi drivers and if there is then I would like to hear it?

Quote:
Public safety. We have one driver up here who regularly works 16 hours or more 7 days a week. This is more than stupid - it's dangerous.


If he is one of the drivers that has been forced through no fault of his own to buy a WAV he will have work all those hours to pay for it and his other commitments


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:18 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
Quote:


Drivers hours should be regulated.


I don't think so. However desirable that may sound to some, there is no justification for placing such a regulation on self employed Taxi drivers and if there is then I would like to hear it?

Quote:
Public safety. We have one driver up here who regularly works 16 hours or more 7 days a week. This is more than stupid - it's dangerous.


If he is one of the drivers that has been forced through no fault of his own to buy a WAV he will have work all those hours to pay for it and his other commitments
If he were, I could sympathise. This guy has a saloon plate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:20 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
Quote:


Drivers hours should be regulated.


I don't think so. However desirable that may sound to some, there is no justification for placing such a regulation on self employed Taxi drivers and if there is then I would like to hear it?

Quote:
Public safety. We have one driver up here who regularly works 16 hours or more 7 days a week. This is more than stupid - it's dangerous.


If he is one of the drivers that has been forced through no fault of his own to buy a WAV he will have work all those hours to pay for it and his other commitments
If he were, I could sympathise. This guy has a saloon plate.


Does he work for Russel by any chance and have to pay silly inflated rentals :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:22 pm 
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no

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:26 pm 
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I think everyone has a million different views, but I hope this kicks off some sort of action from the DfT.

Will 100% of the recommendations from the IoL end up in a final act, I very much doubt it.

But at least they have made an effort to start something that really and truthfully should be an aim for everyone in the taxi/PH trade. 8-[

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:23 am 
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gusmac wrote:
GA wrote:
Therefore the majority of drivers will choose to work when its busy ......... and that in turn will make the line of cars on a rank longer and takings lower.
Then these times will no longer be considered "busy", and the quieter times will seem busier. The market will find it's own level.


The market will exist at the lowest possible level.

Drivers will get other work and drive their cabs at night and weekends.

You can claim that X + Y = Z but the fact remains that there are signifigantly more customers at certain times ........... and there would be signifigantly more taxis at these times if driver hours are controlled to the levels Mr Button suggests.

One thing your spot on with is "then these times wil no longer be considered "busy" " .................. if the market has no busy times when are the drivers expected to make money?

B. Lucky :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:49 pm 
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GA wrote:

You can claim that X + Y = Z but the fact remains that there are signifigantly more customers at certain times ........... and there would be signifigantly more taxis at these times if driver hours are controlled to the levels Mr Button suggests.

B. Lucky :D

You are missing the basic point here.
There will still be the same amount of work at any given time of the day or night, with fewer cabs to do it. How do you equate that any time will suddenly become quieter? Overall there would still be the same number of jobs, with fewer cabs on the road. Result: less waiting between jobs. If large numbers choose only to work nights and weekends, that would leave even more work for those working days. According to your premise drivers will follow the work. Why should they all suddenly choose to work at the same time?

I did go on to say, however:
gusmac wrote:
In practice it won't work.
Drivers will find ways to cheat the system, more cabs will appear or existing cabs will be double or treble shifted.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:45 pm 
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If say the quietest time is between 10.00 am and 3.00 pm like in our town. there are often up to 8 taxis on the rank waiting. There may be 1 or 2 punters an hour so the rest just sit there all day or flit between the main rank and the station. Most jobs are between £3-5 each so you may get 4 in a day. If because of driver hours restrictions half the cabs don't work that shift in favour of a Friday or Saturday night, the remaining taxis may get 8 jobs a day which would be between £24 and £40 for the day. Now how many drivers would choose to work a 5 hour shift for that money compared to the £150-200 for a 5 hour shift on a saturday night?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:09 pm 
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grandad wrote:
£3-5 each so you may get 4 in a day.
£12-20. why do they bother?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:30 pm 
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A little bit more meat on the bone from the Institute themselves.

http://www.instituteoflicensing.org/art ... Taxis.html

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