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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:13 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Sussex wrote:
According to the IoL it's David v Goliath.

http://www.instituteoflicensing.org/art ... i+war.html


Strange, its doesnt mention that mr Button allegedly advises Berwick?

CC

Surely your not implying that the taxi/PH trade is chock-a-block full of vested interests.


Me never. :wink:

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:18 am 
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captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
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No, what I'm saying is that the fees should be controlled by the costs ............... just as the law defines.

If a council only has 20 HC and 5 PH then its costs per licence would be greater than if there were 200 HC and 50 PH. Although the government could define that 1 LO is required to administer and enforce legislation for so many licenses. Lets say 1 LO for every 50 licenses granted (for arguments sake).


If the cost of a licence is £150 all in, as in Berwick, as it should be :sad: ,thats all everyone should pay
You seam to forget that councils have a tendency to make there own charges up so why should taxi owners in Newcastle pay for example £300 for exactly the same thing
And before you start I have not checked the prices
If Mrs GA knew she could get that top or them new shoes for £150 cheaper in Berwick she would be off there like a whippet


Shouldnt the cost of the license reflect the cost of the licensing regime?


CC


I find it amazing you are comparing this debacle to selling shoes.

If a local authority feels the need to have high standards such as an enhanced CRB check because they may have been pervs driving cabs, or a knowledge test because drivers were getting lost and charging customers extra, or three tests per year because some of the cabs are sheds.

Does it not take the p*ss that a person only need email another local authority and never set foot in that place to get a cab and himself licensed?

I mean they even apparently opened a testing station 60 odd miles away from their area.

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:22 am 
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It's a free market out there. Why pay more than you have to for the product that you want. If there were national prices and national standards we would all be better off.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:39 am 
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grandad wrote:
It's a free market out there. Why pay more than you have to for the product that you want. If there were national prices and national standards we would all be better off.


But the product these people seemingly want is something Berwick cannot offer, a license to ply for hire in another area.

How can you have a national price when the costs of the product must reflect the cost of the regime?

If Berwick was licensing 50 taxis at £150 each (which according to reports they were actually doing) then thats £7500, I cant see any LO working for that kind of money, so which part of the licensing regime was paying for the taxis?

They now have 460 taxis at £150 each which is around £69,000, do you think the taxi trade in Berwick is going to get cheaper prices?

By my reckoning the 460 taxis should be paying £16.50p per year now to achieve the £7500, costs cant have increased that much as the vehicles arent in Berwick to check.

But its ok, theyre apparently going to hire another LO to check those vehicles working legitimately within Berwick.

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:33 am 
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captain cab wrote:
grandad wrote:
It's a free market out there. Why pay more than you have to for the product that you want. If there were national prices and national standards we would all be better off.


But the product these people seemingly want is something Berwick cannot offer, a license to ply for hire in another area.


Would that be Ply for Public hire?

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:40 am 
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captain cab wrote:
captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
Quote:
No, what I'm saying is that the fees should be controlled by the costs ............... just as the law defines.

If a council only has 20 HC and 5 PH then its costs per licence would be greater than if there were 200 HC and 50 PH. Although the government could define that 1 LO is required to administer and enforce legislation for so many licenses. Lets say 1 LO for every 50 licenses granted (for arguments sake).


If the cost of a licence is £150 all in, as in Berwick, as it should be :sad: ,thats all everyone should pay
You seam to forget that councils have a tendency to make there own charges up so why should taxi owners in Newcastle pay for example £300 for exactly the same thing
And before you start I have not checked the prices
If Mrs GA knew she could get that top or them new shoes for £150 cheaper in Berwick she would be off there like a whippet


Shouldnt the cost of the license reflect the cost of the licensing regime?


CC


I find it amazing you are comparing this debacle to selling shoes.

If a local authority feels the need to have high standards such as an enhanced CRB check because they may have been pervs driving cabs, or a knowledge test because drivers were getting lost and charging customers extra, or three tests per year because some of the cabs are sheds.

Does it not take the p*ss that a person only need email another local authority and never set foot in that place to get a cab and himself licensed?

I mean they even apparently opened a testing station 60 odd miles away from their area.

CC


CC, the only difference's between Berwick and Newcastle is a knowledge test, and extra taxi mot tests.
Any person requiring a licence from Berwick, must go there, and go through the full licensing process with Mr Wilson who very apt and strict when it come to licencing.
CC when its time for renewing your insurance do you shop around???? :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:17 pm 
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JD wrote:
captain cab wrote:
grandad wrote:
It's a free market out there. Why pay more than you have to for the product that you want. If there were national prices and national standards we would all be better off.


But the product these people seemingly want is something Berwick cannot offer, a license to ply for hire in another area.


Would that be Ply for Public hire?

Regards

JD


The TV program showed them stopping for street hails and I know of one cab which was involved in a RTA with a berwick license having no radio equipment in.....this tells me the cab is used as a public hire vehicle.

regards

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:22 pm 
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skippy41 wrote:
captain cab wrote:
captain cab wrote:
skippy41 wrote:
Quote:
No, what I'm saying is that the fees should be controlled by the costs ............... just as the law defines.

If a council only has 20 HC and 5 PH then its costs per licence would be greater than if there were 200 HC and 50 PH. Although the government could define that 1 LO is required to administer and enforce legislation for so many licenses. Lets say 1 LO for every 50 licenses granted (for arguments sake).


If the cost of a licence is £150 all in, as in Berwick, as it should be :sad: ,thats all everyone should pay
You seam to forget that councils have a tendency to make there own charges up so why should taxi owners in Newcastle pay for example £300 for exactly the same thing
And before you start I have not checked the prices
If Mrs GA knew she could get that top or them new shoes for £150 cheaper in Berwick she would be off there like a whippet


Shouldnt the cost of the license reflect the cost of the licensing regime?


CC


I find it amazing you are comparing this debacle to selling shoes.

If a local authority feels the need to have high standards such as an enhanced CRB check because they may have been pervs driving cabs, or a knowledge test because drivers were getting lost and charging customers extra, or three tests per year because some of the cabs are sheds.

Does it not take the p*ss that a person only need email another local authority and never set foot in that place to get a cab and himself licensed?

I mean they even apparently opened a testing station 60 odd miles away from their area.

CC


CC, the only difference's between Berwick and Newcastle is a knowledge test, and extra taxi mot tests.
Any person requiring a licence from Berwick, must go there, and go through the full licensing process with Mr Wilson who very apt and strict when it come to licencing.
CC when its time for renewing your insurance do you shop around???? :wink:


We aint going to agree skippy.

Mr Wilson doesnt even meet most of the applicants and the CRB check is (so i'm led to believe) the bog standard one as opposed to the enhanced check.

The taxi mot test.....now tell me about this one, because the cabs licensed by berwick in newcastle go through a bog standard mot from a vosa approved testing station, call me a little cynical but surely something like a taximeter needs checked for accuracy, the condition of the vehicle interior and bodywork....over and above the bog standard check?

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:43 pm 
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http://www.berwick-advertiser.co.uk/news/Newcastle-taxi-drivers-protest-in.3825128.jp

Published Date: 28 February 2008

Newcastle taxi drivers protest in Berwick



Taxi drivers from Newcastle make their protest outside the Council Offices in Wallace Green.



DOZENS of Newcastle taxi drivers made a 65-mile trip up the A1 to stage a mass protest outside Berwick Borough Council's offices on Wednesday afternoon.

The 30-strong group, all members of the Newcastle Hackney Carriage Association, claim their livelihoods are being threatened by a flood of Berwick-registered taxi drivers plying their trade in the city.

Terence Gorman, who handed over a 128-signature petition, said: "We've got over 200 Berwick-upon-Tweed taxi plates sitting in our streets in our city and they are stealing our work."

Berwick Borough Council is coming under fire because of its decision to issue cut-price licences to taxi drivers from all over the country.

The issue is already the subject of a judicial review brought by Newcastle City Council against Berwick Borough Council to be heard at the High Court next year - although it is widely thought Berwick will have been disbanded by that time.

"I've lost one third of my business since the Berwick Council started issuing these licenses and I can't afford to wait for the outcome of a judicial review," said Mr Gorman.

The number of hackney carriage licenses issued by Berwick Borough Council has increased from 46 to 487 in less than two years with the majority of these drivers working in the Tyneside area.

Newcastle City Council restricts the number of licenses it issues but taxi drivers are able to apply for Berwick licences in order to exploit a loophole which enables them to operate as private hire companies in Newcastle and North Tyneside.

The borough council says that it is legally obliged to issue the licences to qualifying drivers even if they operate elsewhere in the country.

The Berwick-licensed drivers do not have to pass a Newcastle knowledge test to find out how well they know the city and there are concerns that many are "flimping", illegally picking up people who hail them on the street when they are only allowed to be used for private hire.

"The council thinks it's alright because they have found a loophole in the law but we think their actions are morally and ethically wrong," said Mr Gorman.

"The idea of this protest is to show the strength of feeling of the Newcastle drivers and hopefully make the council realise how its policy is causing us a lot of grief and stress."

However, he warned that bigger protests will be organised in the future if the council refuses to buckle and that several drivers were considering doing shifts in Berwick to give local drivers a taste of the problem.

"It's a peaceful protest," said colleague John Dodd. "We don't want to cause any problems but we want to draw attention to what this council is doing." The 30-minute protest, accompanied by much tooting of horns, caused tailbacks in the Walkergate and Church Street areas of the town and drew a small crowd of curious onlookers.

A council spokesman said: "We deeply regret the actions of the group of Tyneside licensed hackney carriages who today protested at the council offices, disrupting the town centre. The matter was reported to the police to ensure people were able to continue with their business. The issue of hackney carriage licensing over which they protested is to be considered by the High Court next year.

"The council has recognised the need to engage in high visibility enforcement in areas such as Tyneside and had therefore recruited an experienced Licensing Enforcement Officer from another authority and invested in a high visibility enforcement vehicle. High visibility enforcement commenced last week and will be continuing."

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:18 pm 
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From watching that inside out video it appears the council nor the police are concerned about the illegal activities of private hire and hackney carriage drivers no matter where they reside.

One thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me was the ethnic origin of the drivers caught in that Newcastle video. Funny enough the Manchester video portrays that same trend. We know 80% of the Taxi trade is made up of ethnic minorities but can we please have some ethnic Brits in the next round of videos.

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:27 pm 
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JD wrote:
From watching that inside out video it appears the council nor the police are concerned about the illegal activities of private hire and hackney carriage drivers no matter where they reside.

One thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me was the ethnic origin of the drivers caught in that Newcastle video. Funny enough the Manchester video portrays that same trend. We know 80% of the Taxi trade is made up of ethnic minorities but can we please have some ethnic Brits in the next round of videos.

Regards

JD


Quite right too, British touts used to be the best in the world :lol:

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:39 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
The TV program showed them stopping for street hails and I know of one cab which was involved in a RTA with a berwick license having no radio equipment in.....this tells me the cab is used as a public hire vehicle.


Personally I don't know how many want a license to ply for public hire but considering there are supposed to be over 300 Berwick plates working Newcastle then i'm surprised this program could only come up with two who were prepared to break the law.

The program showed six vehicles breaching licensing laws, from not displaying roof signs or the incorrect roof sign, to one vehicle having no plates and the Berwick upon tweed address crossed out on his roof sign.

All of them to my mind showed a complete indifference to the licensing laws of their own council. However the police have a lot to answer for because they completely ignore enforcement of such offences, not only in the North East but also everywhere else in the country.

Its rather simple catching private hire, Hackney carriage drivers and limo drivers breaking the law and breaching licensing conditions but sadly no one in authority gives a chit.

So what the hell? lol

Pay someone the right money and Newcastle could be sorted out in a matter of weeks.

Regards

JD

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:57 pm 
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JD wrote:
captain cab wrote:
The TV program showed them stopping for street hails and I know of one cab which was involved in a RTA with a berwick license having no radio equipment in.....this tells me the cab is used as a public hire vehicle.


Personally I don't know how many want a license to ply for public hire but considering there are supposed to be over 300 Berwick plates working Newcastle then i'm surprised this program could only come up with two who were prepared to break the law.

The program showed six vehicles breaching licensing laws, from not displaying roof signs or the incorrect roof sign, to one vehicle having no plates and the Berwick upon tweed address crossed out on his roof sign.

All of them to my mind showed a complete indifference to the licensing laws of their own council. However the police have a lot to answer for because they completely ignore enforcement of such offences, not only in the North East but also everywhere else in the country.

Its rather simple catching private hire, Hackney carriage drivers and limo drivers breaking the law and breaching licensing conditions but sadly no one in authority gives a chit.

So what the hell? lol

Pay someone the right money and Newcastle could be sorted out in a matter of weeks.

Regards

JD


I actually agree with you 100% (sh*t thats twice in one day).

Someone needs to stick out their arm, hail one and when an unlicensed vehicle stops charge the driver for no insurance.....about one week would get the message across, I agree 100%.

CC

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Can someone remind me exactly what Berwick are meant to do if a 'fit and proper' person presents a 'fit and proper' vehicle to be licensed? :?

On what grounds can they refuse? :?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:10 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Can someone remind me exactly what Berwick are meant to do if a 'fit and proper' person presents a 'fit and proper' vehicle to be licensed? :?

On what grounds can they refuse? :?


They can't refuse. lol But we all know that and I expect so will the Judge.

Regards

JD

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