Taxi Driver Online

Done thank you

NVQs are organised into five levels, based on the competences required.

I don't know how much you know about NVQ's but it would appear you don't know as much as you would like everyone to believe. You try and make out that NVQ's are most definitely not gradings of competence but anyone in their right mind, knows that they are gradings of competence. That's why they have five levels each level having a higher competence rating than the previous level?

I'm not remotely interested in what might or might not have been concocted for the Taxi trade, by an adult education college. My observations are of NVQ's in general and the standard of each level as it is applied.

I think you need to research the background of NVQ's and what they are designed to achieve and the competence levels attributed to each individual grade of NVQ before you start pontificating about something you obviously haven't yet grasped.

I suppose you already know the equivalent comparisons to other academic certifications but if you don't then I'll gladly remind you of what they are?

For your first lesson you might wish to start here.

http://www.qca.org.uk/14-19/qualificati ... x_nvqs.htm

And then go here to complete your first module in NVQ level 2 in the course of "common sense".

http://www.uknrp.org.uk/Pages/UK_Voc_Qu ... mework.asp

Regards

JD

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NVQ Statistics

Since their introduction in 1987, over 4 million NVQs/SVQs had been awarded in the United Kingdom up to the end of September 2002. Of the NVQs awarded in 2001/02, the majority (57 per cent) were at level 2; a further 28 per cent were at level 3; with 11 per cent at level 1. Four per cent were awarded at levels 4 and 5.

Read Statistics of education: vocational qualifications in the UK: 2001/02.

In November 2002 the HM Treasury pre budget report described NVQ level 2 as basic, what do you describe it as?

I understand you had some input in a taxi training course that was accredited with NVQ level 2? As a matter of interest what input did you have? For example was it as a combined trainer/assessor for National Vocational Qualification or either of the two?.

Who supplied the training and assessment for the NVQ and who decided that the training and assessment was adequate for a qualification of NVQ level 2? Who was given the task of monitoring the trainer to safeguard the integrity of the qualification was not put at risk?

I don't know who obtained the funding for a taxi NVQ which only has one level and that being the basic NVQ level 2 but if it earned you some wages then I'm pleased for you.

I have a great idea, why don't you publish the actual paperwork introducing the course details and the module points of reference including the itemised categories of contents that each applicant has to learn.

Regards

JD

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Lets just get something straight.

An NVQ is not training.

An NVQ is simply a test of competance within a specific vocation.

The levels of NVQ relate to duties and reponsibilities undertaken within that vocation.

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If you want training then you undertake a VRQ.

This stands for Vocational Related Qualification and is classroom based learning.

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What I am doing is seeking the VRQ to be an entry level qualification to be completed prior to becoming licensed.

The NVQ would then be taken within a agreed time limit (say 3 years) for new drivers and would be FREE as it is to existing drivers now.

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With regard the current NVQ's integrity.

The Assessor assists the candidate in gathering evidence of their competancy. This is then handed to a Internal Verifier who checks through the evidence before final submission for award. Both of these people are employed by the training provider. The evidence is then passed onto an External Verifier who checks the evidence supplied and then makes the award.
All of this is overseen by an awarding body ............... in this case its Edexcel.

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There is no learning within the NVQ so there are no modules and no specific tasks which need to be undertaken however evidence that the person is competant needs to be provided and there are to many types of evidence that can be gathered to list here.

Any questions ?

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

So you are on record as saying an "NVQ doesn't involve training" and no doubt you came to that conclusion because you believe you know all about the National Vocational qualification certification system? That’s fine but why do all those agencies involved with administering NVQ's take a different view to you when they describe NVQ's as training? I suspect you consider them all to be wrong, is that right?

Do you have any intention of writing to the LSE advising them that they should not use the word training when describing NVQ's?

I suppose you have heard of the LSE initiative "Train to Gain"? Or perhaps you don't know what the LSE is?

I'm only jesting. Of course you know what LSE stands for. However, if you know anything about NVQ's then you will know that the LSE and everyone else involved in administering NVQ's advertise the fact that NVQ's are training. I'll give you an example from a similar course to the one you were involved in but this course is run by Leicester College. This piece was taken from the January newsletter of Train to Gain, which you are probably aware, is the initiative of the LSE.

Jan 2008.

Train to Gain News.

It provided training to a total of 1,403 employees, exceeding its target of 1,345. Most learners achieved Level 2 NVQ qualifications (equivalent to five GCSEs at grades A* to C) but others developed their skills through Level 3 (equivalent to two A level passes) courses and Leadership and Management training.

Leicester College works closely with Train to Gain skills brokers in the East Midlands. It also has its own team of five "training" consultants who specialise in particular sectors, such as Retail and Health and Social Care, and help to identify training solutions for employers.

The college is currently helping a group of around 50 Leicester taxi drivers to work towards an NVQ Level 2 qualification to improve their skills. Initiated by Leicester Shire Promotions, responsible for promoting Leicester and the surrounding area to visitors, and funded through Train to Gain, the project has proved a huge success so far. “Leicester Shire Promotions wanted to improve the quality of taxi services in the city and so we have worked out a programme which includes customer service, personal safety and disability awareness,” explains Helen.

“It is going down fantastically and the drivers’ attendance is fabulous. They do their "training" in the evening after their shifts and there is a lot of excitement about it.”

Judging by the feedback Helen and her team have received so far, employers and learners alike have been highly impressed with the "training" they have accessed through Train to Gain.



How do you become competent in a vocation if you aren't trained for it?



I suppose the word you are looking for is "competence". lol but considering you don't have any NVQ's then you are hardly the right person to offer a qualified opinion on them, are you? Or perhaps you are? lol

I've just realised this course in Gateshead was not an NVQ but a short course VRQ which is the title given to qualifications developed independently by individual Awarding Bodies, rather than a specific national award.

So how come you are suddenly a self proclaimed aficionado on NVQ's when you don't have any yourself and nor have you been involved in the delivery or training in NVQ's?

I took the liberty to find out exactly what it was that you were involved in and I am assuming in conjunction with Go Skills and EDEXCEL it is something like this?

http://www.edexcel.org.uk/VirtualConten ... i___PH.pdf

However I suppose you read this passage from the information supplied by EDEXCEL.

Professional development and "training"

Edexcel supports UK and international customers with "training" related to BTEC qualifications. This support is available through a choice of "training" options offered in our published training directory or through customised "training" at your centre.

So have you told EDEXCEL that they don't offer "training" related to BTEC qualifications? Are you going to ask them to remove that reference?

While you are at it you might as well ask then to remove all the other references to "training" in that document, such as.

The national programme of "training" we offer can be viewed on the Edexcel website (www.edexcel.org.uk). You can request customised "training" through the website or by contacting one of our advisers in the Professional Development and "Training" team on telephone number 0870 240 9800 to discuss your training needs.

The "training" we provide:

• is active — ideas are developed and applied
• is designed to be supportive and thought provoking
• builds on best practice.

Our "training" will also underpin many areas of the FENTO standards for teachers working towards them.

Tutors should use examples drawn from industry or other "training" materials to explain the processes needed to deal with difficult customers and challenging situations.

Indicative reading for learners "Transport Training Technologies" Ltd — Customer Service for Passenger Transport (TTTs, 2007)

UNIT 4: TRANSPORTING PASSENGERS SAFELY

Guidance and units

Developing learners’ knowledge and understanding of vehicle maintenance and operation must be practically based. It is essential at this stage that they have completed formal "training" and gained the necessary licences.

Off-the-job "training" will have been completed as part of the licensing arrangements. Learners should therefore be in a position to maintain and operate a vehicle directly with appropriate support from the operator.

BTEC Short Courses are designed to meet a range of different needs.

BTEC Short Courses at Levels 1–3 offer:

• the opportunity to certificate smaller blocks of learning which are designed to motivate learners and encourage widening participation in education and "training".

• courses that relate to the particular training and employment patterns in a sector.

The Level 2 BTEC Award in Transporting Passengers by Taxi and Private Hire is designed to provide:

• education and "training" for those in the road passenger transport industry with a responsibility to provide a taxi or private hire service for passengers

BTEC onscreen testing procedures

In the Edexcel Level 2 BTEC Award in Transporting Passengers by Taxi and Private Hire, all units are assessed by means of an externally set and marked "multiple-choice" test which will be administered in controlled conditions by the centre. The test will provide the only necessary assessment for the Level 2 BTEC Award in Transporting Passengers by Taxi and Private Hire and will cover the whole of the assessment criteria for these units.

The centre may select at what point during the **training** or delivery of the course they conduct the tests. It is likely that most centres will undertake the test at the end of the **training**.

I could go on and on and on because this document is full of references to the delivery of "training".

We all know that you are the type of guy who lives in self denial of the facts so I suppose you will be true to form and deny that Edexcel ever mentioned "training". I would contemplate on the above references if I were you before you offer up any more observations about "training".

Now we know this course wasn't accredited with a National Vocational Qualification I'm wondering why you jumped on the NVQ bandwagon? Shouldn't you have stuck to the VRQ theme which is no substitute for an NVQ.

I don't know what input you had into this course which it would appear has been running for quite some time albeit that it was updated in 2007. What did the update consist of? Was it to incorporate the Taxi element?

Tell us, were you a tutor for this course or were you drafted in as an expert on a certain subject matters? If so can you advise us what expertise you brought to the table and will you do us all a favour and publish the units of this course?



It sounds as though you want this VRQ to be compulsory? Does this mean you want all new Taxi drivers to have this qualification before they are granted a license? Why go through all that rigmarole, why not just set a test that isn't multiple choice questions and those that pass with the required pass rate get licensed and those that fail get to try again.



A moment ago you called it a VRQ and now you call it an NVQ but this short course BTEC is not an NVQ so what do you want VRQ's or NVQ's?

Besides confusing yourself you are now confusing us. lol

I just had a quick look at the basics of VRQ's here’s what I found.

How are VRQs taught?

VRQs are "modular". Each "module" covering a different aspect of management. Each level requires a number of mandatory units and a number of optional units. The number of units required to be undertaken varies according to the level of qualification being studied. The exact components of a VRQ can vary according to the provider but they can consists of;

Tutor led workshops, "training sessions," or tutorials Work based assignments

I suppose because the dreaded word "Training" is in there that this outfit is Taboo? Even more so when you consider that their business name also includes the word "Training". "Lifetime Training".

http://www.lifetimetraining.com

Maybe they should drop the word "Training", what do you think?

I'm slightly confused by the fact that this outfit and many others like it rely on the word "training" to describe their product of National certified courses and yet you, a person who has only recently been introduced to the field of certified qualified learning has the audacity to imply these organisations are wrong.



Yes I think we get the picture.



Really? If you knew anything about NVQ's then you would know that the relationship is one of "Tutor and Student" the Tutor does the teaching and also the internal assessment of each task in each unit as it is completed and which is then signed as appropriate. External Verifiers are an ever visible presence from time to time as observers in such a way that they might visit the training centre on occasions and view the portfolios of candidates and discuss any anomalies with the Trainers that might be evident.



Not a very bright statement and hardly worth a response.



EDEXCEL state modules but to most people Modules = units and every NVQ has them regardless of whether they are defined as modules or units and every NVQ has tasks that have to be undertaken and completed. If you don't complete a task then it won't get signed off but you will soon understand that, should you ever tutor at NVQ level.

I understand Gateshead College is setting up a Transportation NVQ After Easter, it will be interesting to see what the units are and who is the tutor and above all else what are the Tutors Qualifications? After all it wouldn't be fair on the candidates if the Tutor was a dummy. Would it?



To be quite honest I don't think you are blessed with the ability to answer any questions relating to this subject matter but you can start by answering all those questions I posed in this post and the previous post.

How about this for your first question and answer session.

1. How many NVQ's do you have?'

2. Have you ever taught any NVQ programmes and if so what were they?

3. What Qualifications do you have that make you qualified to tutor at NVQ level certification?

Regards

JD

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Good questions JD ............. well worthy of discussion.

So ................. lets debate the issues you raise.

Training is a generic term ............... as is taxis ............... for the checking of a persons ability, knowledge or skill relating to a specific topic and then offering instruction to enable any person seeking to be qualified to a certain standard to attain that standard.

Establishments that provide people with access to a qualification are known as Training Providers.

It is therefore clear that when the term "training" is used it is intended to cover a much wider range of qualifications than NVQ's. So when Awarding Bodies offer a qualification they refer to the work that leads to that qualification as training.

Quite rightly you point out that the VRQ is considered a lesser qualification than an NVQ ............... however it un-doubtable has its place within the further education process as it is intended to instruct people on what the basic skill requirement of a given vocation is without the person involved having any practical experience.

The NVQ is very seperate as it can only be undertaken by someone who can draw on practical experience within the industry they are seeking an NVQ.

In answer to your questions -

1. I have 2 NVQ's and have an A1.
2. I have never taught NVQ ............ however I have taught VRQ with 100% pass rate.
3. 17 years experience as a licensed HC and PH driver.

In response I have some questions based upon the content of your last post.

1. A person has held a licence for 20 years and has an un-bleamished record. Do they have to be trained to attain an NVQ.

2. A person who wishes to attain an NVQ is refered to as -
a. a candidate or b. a student.

3. The primary contact with a person wishing to attain an NVQ is -
a. a tutor or b. an assessor.

4. Is there a formal examination to complete an NVQ?

5. How many units need to be completed in order to achieve an NVQ?

6. How are the units assessed?

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

Indeed .................... but I wouldn't worry about that JD, because I'm involved and I wouldn't be happy about people with no trade experience being involved in the provision of any vocational qualification relating to any trade concerned.

Oh and neither would any Training Provider.

B. Lucky

_________________
"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

It appears you need to consult with others before answering my questions JD.

I will give the answers if your struggling.

B. Lucky

_________________
"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

I don’t need to consult anyone but if I did I certainly wouldn’t hide the fact.

I see my post has exposed the blatant inaccuracies in your bellicose diatribe regarding NVQ’s.

I knew it would and your response was “oh so predictable”. I suppose Its a good job there is someone like me around to stop you in your tracks every time you go off the rails and start shooting your mouth off about a subject you know very little about.

Perhaps you should apologise to PY for suggesting he didn’t take a test when taking an NVQ. How would you know what format his course took?

You are brand spanking new to NVQ’s are you not but true to form you are suddenly an expert on the way some units are delivered?

Fortunately for us your own admission that you have no experience in teaching NVQ’s speaks volumes, it is patently obvious that you haven’t yet realised that some units might well have a set of questions that requires the candidate to supply answers. It is perfectly possible that PY and many others like him might believe those questions are a test?

When you have some experience of putting together "several" NVQ level three courses then I’m sure you will realise your glaring mistakes, such as your denunciation of the word Training.

Your “Training” myth was blown apart for the simple reason you know nothing about the way vocational education is delivered, or how widely the word is used by established training organisations. Do you want to know why the word “training” is probably used? Well look it up in the dictionary I'm sure it will give you a clue.

With regard to the other nonsense in respect of you asking me questions on my knowledge of NVQ’s, I should remind you that it wasn’t me who came on here stating that they were the NVQ messiah and that they were the font of all NVQ knowledge. That person was you.

You got on your high horse and started bullchiting about NVQ’s when in fact you have had no dealings with NVQ’s. You put together a VRQ Mickey mouse course that was probably an insult to ones intelligence.

You state you have acquired an NVQ assessor level 3 A1 which as you well know requires no previous qualifications, they are available to anyone who can prove a competence up to the required level they work at and in any field. You say you also have a level two NVQ but it would be interesting to know in what subject because I have already stated that they give level two NVQ's away with every packet of cornflakes. If you say the level two is in Transport and Taxi driving then I shall just pizz myself laffing.

I assume you obtained your level 3 A1 at Gateshead College but I’m wondering who actually assessed you and just what their level of competence is. The reason I say that is because you have never been the sharpest knife in the draw when it came to understanding the laws of the Taxi trade. As an example, your ineptitude at not knowing permission was needed from the council for the installation of CCTV equipment. I could name countless other instances but I wont put you through that ordeal.

The questions you posed to me in order to deflect your inadequacies in previous posts are lamentable, if you look at my last post you will see I gave you the answers to most of those questions before they were asked, therefore it wasn’t very bright of you to ask those questions in the first place. Was it?

I don’t know if you have worked it out yet as to why I know just a little bit about NVQ’s but I suspect others might have done? I would stop digging a hole for yourself otherwise you will lose what little credibility you have left.

Regards

JD

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Mr T read my previous post and then laff.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I consult with people with superior knowledge every day ........... its how I learn and evolve.



As you haven't answered my questions, and as I answered yours, I'm happy for others to decide who has described the format of the NVQ for this award correctly.



Sorry by I think you will find that PY didn't actually take an NVQ, a fact PY confirmed within a posting on this site. PY had undertaken a different qualification.



I can tell you that I have been working on this project for 2 years, with a signifigant amount of work being done by Gateshead College to attain funding for the course to make it free for candidates.



I would suggest that your attempts to put forward the NVQ as "training" is some kind of attempt to put off experienced drivers from going for the qualification .................... the NVQ, I repeat, has no examination either written or verbal, it is simply a case of providing evidence of vocational competance.



I only mentioned the fact that the method used to attain the NVQ qualification was not as described ............. something that was confirmed by the original author, PY.



The VRQ I delivered was awarded by Edexcel ............ the same people who award the NVQ



Whats your point JD ................... is it just that I have undertaken to do something productive and you have decided to continue being destructive.
You will not be happy until you are the governments Taxi Tsar ................. and as that will never happen your future seems to be full of envy.



I will pass your allegations onto the College.



Iasked the questions to highlight the inconsistancies within your argument in relation to the true format of the NVQ qualification. Your inability to answer the questions raised show clearly that you would rather see the course and qualification fail.
Please supply answers ................ or do you consider yourself above reproach.

quote="JD"]
I don’t know if you have worked it out yet as to why I know just a little bit about NVQ’s but I suspect others might have done? I would stop digging a hole for yourself otherwise you will lose what little credibility you have left.

Regards

JD[/quote]

If you knew anything about NVQ's JD then you would happily and readily have answered the questions raised.

Your willingness to resort to personal insult again identifies the shortcomings of your argument.

Please answer my questions.

B. Lucky

_________________
"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

I'm not remotely interested with who you consult.

If you have to consult people on simple matters then that is entirely your own prerogative. However it might raise a few eyebrows?

You said, it appears I have to consult with others, just who these others are remain a mystery but I assume your comments were broadcast in order to get me to respond to your post, which to be quite honest I wasn't going to respond. The reason why I wasn't going to respond is because the bulk of those questions you raised had already been answered and it wasn’t me who was pontificating about NVQ’s.

For instance, it might have escaped your level three intelligence but I had already stated that, “After all it wouldn't be fair on the “candidates” if the Tutor was a dummy. Would it?

Then you ask this idiotic question.

2. A person who wishes to attain an NVQ is refered to as -
a. a “candidate” or b. a student.

Perhaps you can understand why I sometimes pull my hair out with you because like I said, the answer could be found in my previous post. The point is that you already knew that, so why did you show your stupidity in offering up a meaningless question?

Regards

JD

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The question I raised was because of this contradiction JD.

The other 5 questions should be easily answered by someone with your knowledge of NVQ's.

Now without sounding repetative Mr JD ........................ are you going to answer the questions or are you not.

I can obviously supply the answers as previously offered.

B. Lucky

_________________
"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

JD ................ would you like me to PM you the answers to stop you looking silly.

B. Lucky

_________________
"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.