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UK cab trade debate and advice
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:52 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I would think most areas having a waiting list or some criteria to use. I would think the majority of plates go to people with some connection with the trade. The money does not necessarily leave the trade. If there is abuse of the system then close the loop holes, there is no need to destroy or dismantle the whole system.


Personally I doubt the legality of waiting lists, but that's another issue.

However not all areas have waiting lists, take Southampton didn't they have a lottery to give away a number of plates? Didn't some go to people without a HC or PH license?

Manchester have two by all accounts, and when it was all getting sorted the lads at the top of the main list already had plates. And they didn't mind getting another one. :shock:

But you have to ask what is the point of waiting lists, when drivers on them can be queue jumped by those with plenty of cash?

As for the loopholes, thankfully they are being closed by the process of de-limitation. :D :D :D :D :D


Remember anything you get for free is worth exactly what you paid for it.
What good De-lim if the thing you crave is destroyed in the process.
Plates should be expensive if only to stop the likes of "sussex" getting one.
We need people with business qualifications and experience. We need proper investment, marketing expertise. We don't need spoilt brats, "its not fair I want one, give me, give me". When you work for something you appreciate its value.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:06 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You don't have to fit a taximeter, you are free to charge whatever you wish, I would say that is a very significant difference. As you have the choice of which to use PH or HC there is no discrimination. It a financial decision.
Your whole argument is based on falsehood.
When you start with a lie no matter how many facts you surround it with it is still a lie.


What is the fact that I don't have to have a taxi meter got to do with it?

Reply: A taxi is a controlled fare vehicle a PH is not.

And how do you know that I don't need one to operate on the firm I work with?

Reply: Working for a firm has nothing whatever to do with the regulations, its your personal choice.


And where in any of the acts does it say that you must have a taxi meter?


Reply: By definition a taxi is a controlled fare vehicle. It must adhere to the tariff set by the licensing authority. If it does not have a working meter fitted the driver must obtain a exception certificate to use the vehicle as a taxi. A PH is free to set his own rates and fees.
PRIVATE hire, a private arrangement between customer and supplier.
PUBLIC hire, a controlled fare vehicle, fares charged according to a published tariff.
Basic stuff but totally unpalatable to "sussex".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:16 pm 
Cgull wrote:
Ive driven a PH and Ive driven my cab. It was the same me I didnt change one bit.
My mates drive PH and my mates drive taxis. I dont have a lot of time for those that think one side of the trade is better than the other.
We have bad taxi drivers and bad PH drivers.
The more some try to split tha two sides of the trade the more likely the powers that be will try and make sure we only have one.



I don't think one side is better than the other but we should not ignore the fact there is a difference. They are not two sides of the same trade although we may target the same customers. The PH trade has done a very good job in blurring the lines and the taxi trade needs to re-assert itself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:17 pm 
Sussex wrote:
The issue isn't whether 'Sussex' can afford a plate, but the fact that people are getting plates for nothing from a council and then selling them on for tens of thousands.


Incorrect again,as well as a contradiction from a previous debate.

As you are well aware plates are very rarely GIVEN plates for nothing from Councils, thats why they have such value. Plates have, I would guess, changed hands many times since they were given to people for nothing.

When B&H issued more plates you applauded the P/H drivers who sold their entitlement without even plating a vehicle, and remained licensed as P/H.

Come on Sussex, at least retain substance within your argument.

Dream your dreams.

B. Lucky


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:49 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
Remember anything you get for free is worth exactly what you paid for it.
What good De-lim if the thing you crave is destroyed in the process.
Plates should be expensive if only to stop the likes of "sussex" getting one.
We need people with business qualifications and experience. We need proper investment, marketing expertise. We don't need spoilt brats, "its not fair I want one, give me, give me". When you work for something you appreciate its value.


I work in a area that doesnt limit cabs and I do just fine thanks.
The only PH are the luxury cars who dont want the council stickers.
In fact some cab drivers also have top notch PH to do exec work. Nobody maons good luck to them.
But the think we do have is a hard geography test, a drivers standards test done by the DSA and good quality vehicle standards.
Whats wrong with that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:52 pm 
Anonymous wrote:
What is the fact that I don't have to have a taxi meter got to do with it?

Reply: A taxi is a controlled fare vehicle a PH is not.


A council near me doesn't have set fares but has taxis. B ut then agsin they just licensed a fire engine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:58 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57349
Location: 1066 Country
Anonymous wrote:
A taxi is a controlled fare vehicle a PH is not.".


Controlled by a max fare within it's area and any fare outside of it, isn't that convincing a definition. But what about those areas that license cabs but don't insist on meters. How does that fit your criteria?

Anonymous wrote:
Reply: By definition a taxi is a controlled fare vehicle. It must adhere to the tariff set by the licensing authority. If it does not have a working meter fitted the driver must obtain a exception certificate to use the vehicle as a taxi. A PH is free to set his own rates and fees.
PRIVATE hire, a private arrangement between customer and supplier.
PUBLIC hire, a controlled fare vehicle, fares charged according to a published tariff.
Basic stuff but totally unpalatable to "sussex".


And what act are you quoting there then?

_________________
IDFIMH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57349
Location: 1066 Country
Gateshead Angel wrote:
When B&H issued more plates you applauded the P/H drivers who sold their entitlement without even plating a vehicle, and remained licensed as P/H.


Well I don't remember saying such a thing.

But I will just say that it's the system that's s***, and in a s*** system you get s*** people doing s*** things.

Such as happened in Brighton.

_________________
IDFIMH


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:13 pm 
Sussex wrote:
Gateshead Angel wrote:
When B&H issued more plates you applauded the P/H drivers who sold their entitlement without even plating a vehicle, and remained licensed as P/H.


Well I don't remember saying such a thing.

But I will just say that it's the system that's s***, and in a s*** system you get s*** people doing s*** things.

Such as happened in Brighton.


By not condoning their actions and dismissing them with a comment along the lines of "why shouldn't they ....... everyone else does" it is fair to assume that you agreed with their actions.

The system is [edited by admin], some of the people involved in this trade are [edited by admin] but councils deem them fit and proper people so we shouldn't discriminate against someone we know is [edited by admin] just because they are [edited by admin].

The point is, we can't change the system the way you want it changed because it would cause a massive financial burden on the people who could least afford it, and that is [edited by admin].

B. Lucky


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:27 am 
Sussex wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
A taxi is a controlled fare vehicle a PH is not.".


Controlled by a max fare within it's area and any fare outside of it, isn't that convincing a definition. But what about those areas that license cabs but don't insist on meters. How does that fit your criteria?

Anonymous wrote:
Reply: By definition a taxi is a controlled fare vehicle. It must adhere to the tariff set by the licensing authority. If it does not have a working meter fitted the driver must obtain a exception certificate to use the vehicle as a taxi. A PH is free to set his own rates and fees.
PRIVATE hire, a private arrangement between customer and supplier.
PUBLIC hire, a controlled fare vehicle, fares charged according to a published tariff.
Basic stuff but totally unpalatable to "sussex".


And what act are you quoting there then?


(hes quoting the law Sussex, ancient law with an illegal condition from his LA thrown in, the Lad is confident hes right, only me and you know hes been misled by his LA, NOW LET HIM OFF)

Geoff


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:29 am 
Sussex wrote:
Gateshead Angel wrote:
When B&H issued more plates you applauded the P/H drivers who sold their entitlement without even plating a vehicle, and remained licensed as P/H.


Well I don't remember saying such a thing.

But I will just say that it's the system that's s***, and in a s*** system you get s*** people doing s*** things.

Such as happened in Brighton.


you did Sussex, take it from me yer did.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:35 am 
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Which part of the DDA applies to taxis and not PH at present?


ALL OF IT.


Well I have just re-read the DDA and the bit about wheel-chair vehicles hasn't been adopted yet. Is it 2010 or 2020 until it's law?

The dog bit now applies to PH as well. Thus nothing that applies to HCs, applies to them only.




Guest,
I dont believe you have read it either that or you dont understand it, and the papers are out instructing councils to go WAV, however all trades are responsible for amendments to serve all disabilities.

now councils issuing new plates have no alternative but to insist on wavs or they offend the dda.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:39 am 
Sussex wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You don't have to fit a taximeter, you are free to charge whatever you wish, I would say that is a very significant difference. As you have the choice of which to use PH or HC there is no discrimination. It a financial decision.
Your whole argument is based on falsehood.
When you start with a lie no matter how many facts you surround it with it is still a lie.


What is the fact that I don't have to have a taxi meter got to do with it?

And how do you know that I don't need one to operate on the firm I work with?

And where in any of the acts does it say that you must have a taxi meter?




model bye laws


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:42 am 
Cgull wrote:
Ive driven a PH and Ive driven my cab. It was the same me I didnt change one bit.
My mates drive PH and my mates drive taxis. I dont have a lot of time for those that think one side of the trade is better than the other.
We have bad taxi drivers and bad PH drivers.
The more some try to split tha two sides of the trade the more likely the powers that be will try and make sure we only have one.



yes Cgull you need private hire to protect your racket, and nowhere is there more racketeering than your patch.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:45 am 
Anonymous wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I would think most areas having a waiting list or some criteria to use. I would think the majority of plates go to people with some connection with the trade. The money does not necessarily leave the trade. If there is abuse of the system then close the loop holes, there is no need to destroy or dismantle the whole system.


Personally I doubt the legality of waiting lists, but that's another issue.

However not all areas have waiting lists, take Southampton didn't they have a lottery to give away a number of plates? Didn't some go to people without a HC or PH license?

Manchester have two by all accounts, and when it was all getting sorted the lads at the top of the main list already had plates. And they didn't mind getting another one. :shock:

But you have to ask what is the point of waiting lists, when drivers on them can be queue jumped by those with plenty of cash?

As for the loopholes, thankfully they are being closed by the process of de-limitation. :D :D :D :D :D


Remember anything you get for free is worth exactly what you paid for it.
What good De-lim if the thing you crave is destroyed in the process.
Plates should be expensive if only to stop the likes of "sussex" getting one.
We need people with business qualifications and experience. We need proper investment, marketing expertise. We don't need spoilt brats, "its not fair I want one, give me, give me". When you work for something you appreciate its value.


Just remember one thing,
Joe Public and Fred Citizen owns the ranks, pay for the ranks, your view would almost certainly had government putting a stop to this racket of selling plates.

no one should be stopped from having a plate its immoral.


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