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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:05 pm 
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Doom wrote:
I do believe London U is correct in this,

The way I see it with those door stickers on a PHC sat in proximity of a target rich enviroment is touting in the same way leaving your mobile phone on show and unattended in a pub is, you're relying on people to be honest when not all are and a lot of the time it's no surprise illegal activities take place,

Just before I started the PHC was only allowed to have a card with the company name in the sunvisor or dashboard when waiting for a genuine pick up, that was replaced with full screen windows banners and now since the windscreen laws changed the door signs, but in reality a privately booked car should be just that, what is required is to find a workable solution that identifies the PHC to it's booking customer and nobody else, I could add some more about the real reason touting is such a problem but I'll just get slammed for it, it's always gone on and to a degree wasn't the problem it is now when there were just a handful of gamblers doing it, but it's got to the stage where many PHD's actually think it's their right to intercept ranks and tout, some even think it's not illegal.


It does appear that I have ruffled quite a few feathers with my posts, mainly PH.

You are right when you say many PH drivers and operators believe they are doing nothing wrong because they do it all the time unchallenged.

When the government changed the licensing laws to permit 24 hour drinking they failed to see the bigger picture of how this would affect public order. I posted the STaN policing model on here in an earlier post. It is is 90+ pages long and explains in full detail the policing plan to reduce public order offences. It is a totally illegal policy and can be challenged. This fact is causing problems rolling it out. Is the Law Commission Consultation making any sense to you yet.... It should be !

You are probably aware of the existence of "Satellite Offices" and what they are all about. In London they rolled this policing model out, but hid it behind glossy advertisements on TV etc. They then took it to Birmingham and soon it will be in every major city in the country. It will kill the Hackney Carriage trade dead, then it will be deregulated, hence the need for the Law Commission Consultation.

Getting back to touting. The police and local government are complicit with turning a blind eye to the illegal activities of PH touts. This is the reason many PH think they are within the law. As to any threat to the general public by sexual predators known to infest the PH industry. Well, the authorities are more concearned with public order and out of control drinking.
The rest, well that's what they consider to be collateral damage.

LU

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:35 pm 
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wee eddie wrote:
It appears to me that this is just the creation of a fancy Private Rank for PH Cars and should be opposed at every turn.

Punter turns up, takes a seat, is directed to the first PH on the line.

What's that if it's not a Rank?

Insider North West seem to agree with you

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... index.html


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:41 pm 
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In one.

No enforcement, they genuinely believe that customers leaving a bar where they have the usual t*** with a clipboard are their customers, and theirs alone. :roll:

Next they will start sticking signs to their cars, and we've already had an operator in Walthamstow try it on with roof signs.

They are out of control and making it up as they go along.

I think some folks on here who see the odd PH car touting around their county towns should pay a visit to London to appreciate the scale on which it takes place of a night (and day in some places) Im talking thousands at night, and thats why there's so much anger amoungst London drivers which to the outsider seems OTT at times.

Try spending 4 years becoming a taxi driver, then watch the latest immigrant from last month stand outside a club or hotel telling people, or directing people to 'taxis'. Then say 'its ok, the poor chaps need to park there'

You won't.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:04 pm 
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London Uncensored wrote:
Doom wrote:
I do believe London U is correct in this,

The way I see it with those door stickers on a PHC sat in proximity of a target rich enviroment is touting in the same way leaving your mobile phone on show and unattended in a pub is, you're relying on people to be honest when not all are and a lot of the time it's no surprise illegal activities take place,

Just before I started the PHC was only allowed to have a card with the company name in the sunvisor or dashboard when waiting for a genuine pick up, that was replaced with full screen windows banners and now since the windscreen laws changed the door signs, but in reality a privately booked car should be just that, what is required is to find a workable solution that identifies the PHC to it's booking customer and nobody else, I could add some more about the real reason touting is such a problem but I'll just get slammed for it, it's always gone on and to a degree wasn't the problem it is now when there were just a handful of gamblers doing it, but it's got to the stage where many PHD's actually think it's their right to intercept ranks and tout, some even think it's not illegal.


It does appear that I have ruffled quite a few feathers with my posts, mainly PH.

You are right when you say many PH drivers and operators believe they are doing nothing wrong because they do it all the time unchallenged.

When the government changed the licensing laws to permit 24 hour drinking they failed to see the bigger picture of how this would affect public order. I posted the STaN policing model on here in an earlier post. It is is 90+ pages long and explains in full detail the policing plan to reduce public order offences. It is a totally illegal policy and can be challenged. This fact is causing problems rolling it out. Is the Law Commission Consultation making any sense to you yet.... It should be !

You are probably aware of the existence of "Satellite Offices" and what they are all about. In London they rolled this policing model out, but hid it behind glossy advertisements on TV etc. They then took it to Birmingham and soon it will be in every major city in the country. It will kill the Hackney Carriage trade dead, then it will be deregulated, hence the need for the Law Commission Consultation.

Getting back to touting. The police and local government are complicit with turning a blind eye to the illegal activities of PH touts. This is the reason many PH think they are within the law. As to any threat to the general public by sexual predators known to infest the PH industry. Well, the authorities are more concearned with public order and out of control drinking.
The rest, well that's what they consider to be collateral damage.

LU

You seem such a knowledgeable chappie... maybe you could oblige us.. seeing as we are only simple pumpkin eaters... and Straw suckers... arr. arr... I would be right in assuming would I not.... that you have held meaningful meetings with the Law Commission.... we would be grateful if a person such as yourself with your vast knowledge would kindly share that experience with the rest of us arr arr .
where I am... the private hire companies have been using satellite for the last 20 years.... hope that doesn't rain on your parade.... give my regards to weeeeed.

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Mr T wrote:
the private hire companies have been using satellite for the last 20 years.... hope that doesn't rain on your parade.... give my regards to weeeeed.


Is using satellite the same thing as having a satellite office?

Wee Eddie wrote:
It appears to me that this is just the creation of a fancy Private Rank for PH Cars and should be opposed at every turn.

Punter turns up, takes a seat, is directed to the first PH on the line.

What's that if it's not a Rank?


You're assuming that there will be a line of phcs parked up on a busy junction in a busy city. They may well be parked up somewhere, as they are now, but I would think they'll be called to the office and not parked outside it, I could be wrong only time will tell. If they flout the law it is the option of the council to remove the operators license. It would be for all concerned at Alpha not to be parked outside its office.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Doom wrote:
I do believe London U is correct in this,

If ever I needed any confirmation that he is barking up the wrong tree, then the above comment seals the deal.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:25 pm 
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London Uncensored wrote:
The Criminal Justice And Public Order Act 1994 Sect 167 (1)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/199 ... taxi-touts


167 Touting for hire car services.

(1)Subject to the following provisions, it is an offence, in a public place, to solicit persons to hire vehicles to carry them as passengers.
(2)Subsection (1) above does not imply that the soliciting must refer to any particular vehicle nor is the mere display of a sign on a vehicle that the vehicle is for hire soliciting within that subsection.
(3)No offence is committed under this section where soliciting persons to hire licensed taxis is permitted by a scheme under section 10 of the M1Transport Act 1985 (schemes for shared taxis) whether or not supplemented by provision made under section 13 of that Act (modifications of the taxi code).
(4)It is a defence for the accused to show that he was soliciting for [F1passengers to be carried at separate fares by public service vehicles] on behalf of the holder of a PSV operator’s licence for those vehicles whose authority he had at the time of the alleged offence.
(5)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
(6)In this section—
“public place” includes any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access (whether on payment or otherwise); and

“public service vehicle” and “PSV operator’s licence” have the same meaning as in Part II of the M2Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981.

(7)F2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

So we have moved from plying to touting?

They are different laws you know? ](*,)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Quote:
Is using satellite the same thing as having a satellite office?



http://www.webraska.com/News/PressRelea ... 23_raywood

as you know the bigger companies are using the more advanced systems
But I think Mr Blobby is referring to other extensions to their licence...ie freephone in Tesco's..... and so on...... but this new company in Liverpool already has an existing licence..... so the new place will be a extension to the existing licence

But bill_datamaster is the man to really explain

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:33 pm 
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London Uncensored wrote:
Dusty Bin wrote:
Mr London Uncensored displays all the characteristics of a troll, but ironically seems to have managed the grate (sic!) feat of uniting all sides of the TDO debate against him =D>


That's not a comment in tune with the thread; It's an opinion and no less than personal attack !
And from a moderator.....ZZZZZzzzzzzzz.


I'm actually an occassional administrator and certainly not a moderator. If I was then much of what's posted on here would be deleted. Indeed, it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to moderate the forum to what I regard as an acceptable standard, so the forum probably wouldn't exist at all, at least in anything like its present form.

But indeed while many your contributions to this thread have displayed all the insulting, abrasive and arrogant qualities of a troll, on the other hand such attitudes are hardly unusual on here, so to that extent I only labelled you a troll because you are relatively new on here.

Quote:
And you know what they say about opinions :lol:


You mean that everyone has one, just like a certain part of the anatomy?

In fact at least one contributor to the forum doesn't have that part of the anatomy these days.

Strange, but true. :-|

As regards the substantive law I think you make a point worth debating, but unfortunately the vast majority of contributions are adamantly and vehemently treating the issue as black and white, so to that extent I can't really be bothered engaging with the substance of the issue. :?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Captain Cab Wrote: your figure of 110,000 is 40,000 up on an email I received from TfL last week


Obviously you are involved politically or you wouldn't have contacted TfL. I'm sure you didn't write to them out of curiosity , so
could you post a copy of the said reply from TfL to confirm these figures ? Let me guess, you have deleted the email :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Dusty Bin wrote:


Quote:
As regards the substantive law I think you make a point worth debating, but unfortunately the vast majority of contributions are adamantly and vehemently treating the issue as black and white, so to that extent I can't really be bothered engaging with the substance of the issue. :




Thanks for that... I understand !
LU

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:17 pm 
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London Uncensored wrote:
Quote:
Captain Cab Wrote: your figure of 110,000 is 40,000 up on an email I received from TfL last week


Obviously you are involved politically or you wouldn't have contacted TfL. I'm sure you didn't write to them out of curiosity , so
could you post a copy of the said reply from TfL to confirm these figures ? Let me guess, you have deleted the email :roll:


What has politics got to do with it? I was doing research for a reply to the Law commission consultation.

I still have the email, but I'm not going to reproduce it on here, why dont you email Mr Mason youself?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:28 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
London Uncensored wrote:
Quote:
Captain Cab Wrote: your figure of 110,000 is 40,000 up on an email I received from TfL last week


Obviously you are involved politically or you wouldn't have contacted TfL. I'm sure you didn't write to them out of curiosity , so
could you post a copy of the said reply from TfL to confirm these figures ? Let me guess, you have deleted the email :roll:


What has politics got to do with it? I was doing research for a reply to the Law commission consultation.

I still have the email, but I'm not going to reproduce it on here, why dont you email Mr Mason youself?



I don't need to. I was at Palestra in person last Jan 2011. I was told personally by a senior member of John Masons staff that the figure was 107,000 and rising with no talk of them closing the doors. That was 18 months ago...

I will know if you are telling the truth... Just quote me verbatim the paragraph containing the figures.... This shouldn't be a problem....

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:31 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Quote:
Is using satellite the same thing as having a satellite office?



http://www.webraska.com/News/PressRelea ... 23_raywood

as you know the bigger companies are using the more advanced systems
But I think Mr Blobby is referring to other extensions to their licence...ie freephone in Tesco's..... and so on...... but this new company in Liverpool already has an existing licence..... so the new place will be a extension to the existing licence

But bill_datamaster is the man to really explain


I mentioned this because I got the impression that LU was referring to such satellite offices as those found in the pubs and clubs in some major cities.

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:32 pm 
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London Uncensored wrote:


I don't need to. I was at Palestra in person last Jan 2011 shortly after leaving the committee of one of the recognised trade organisations. I was told personally by a senior member of John Masons staff that the figure was 107,000 and rising with no talk of them closing the doors. That was 18 months ago...

I will know if you are telling the truth... Just quote me verbatim the paragraph containing the figures.... This shouldn't be a problem....


I'm not reproducing the email, but you can believe what you wish, you tend to believe what you choose to believe anyway.

How's that UCG membership coming along? At last a group standing up for the London Cab Driver =D>

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