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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:00 am 
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Have you always had those views ?

even as a teenage lad ?

Lets hope you dont end up in jail as consequence of a driving mishap and end up getting abused by some sick warden coz there will be nobody there to watch over whats going on because your mate kenny had removed them.

Do you think it would be right for any of your past convictions to be cast up at the begging of lets say a dangerous driving charge 2012

When in 2008 you had a dangerous driving conviction?


Reggie your no where near the money earners i was talking about when i say high earners, this is problem in todays society, people wanting to be right wing upper class baboons,

I have no problem with capitalism

You would be better off in the BNP

Your views are the exact views that put me off the SNP

Anyway good luck


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Just to clarify i have no driving convictions, my views are based on the last 32 years of expérience, our social problems stem from the Tories policies of the 80s, the problem is out of control, it needs sorted, we can only sort it with independence, in my opinion, my politics are centre right not far right. VOTE YES

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Nice to see you debating some policy sunset. The things you point to are SNP policies now, not pros or cons of independence. There's nothing there that a future Scottish government couldn't change.

I'll have a go at your points but remember, I'm a socialist and I'm not a member of the SNP.

sunset wrote:
You make look at the council tax freeze ( this actually damaging public services)

Here I partially agree with you. It's not good for local government finances to continue freezing this. Need should be addressed by council tax benefit, not by squeezing council services to the bone.

Unfortunately, UK government policy is to squeeze services to the bone and to cut council tax benefit.


sunset wrote:
Free prescriptions ( again this is damaging the NHS)

That is just plain wrong.
Official figures tell us any savings from means testing would be swallowed up by the bureaucracy required to do it. So instead of spending money on medicines, you spend it on a system of checking everyone's means.
This isn't about rich people getting free aspirin, since the majority of the NHS drug budget goes on disabilities and conditions which would be exempt anyway, and people who would qualify after means testing.


sunset wrote:
Tuition fees (again no need to let the super rich off here but again he did)

Education should be free. If you means test the kids, you will find they almost all qualify, since they've just left school and have little or no means of their own. Their parents should be contributing towards their education, but there's a better way to do that. I'll come to that later.

I'm surprised you didn't mention SLABs desire to means test free bus passes?
Perhaps you realise that these are used disproportionally by the poor and needy.
The super rich may have free bus passes but they don't often travel with the great unwashed.

sunset wrote:
super rich earners on higher incomes should be paying for these services


You are right and they should be doing it through the tax system.

    The 5% tax cut for the wealthiest in society handed out by Westminster was an insult to the vast majority of tax payers and should be reversed immediately.
    Income tax avoidance costs the UK 15 times as much as benefit fraud, yet NONE of the UK parties wants to tackle this. Now why is that? :-k
    Trident replacement is a £100 billion waste of money which most Scots don't want. Isn't it strange that SLAB can't find the moral courage to oppose this ridiculous waste of public money?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:54 pm 
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sunset wrote:

Now take a wee look what Kenny is doing to the justice system

He is slowing trying to take more and more rights away from all of us

The big print giveth and the small print taketh

Kenny and co lawyers, bankers, ex coppers dont reli give two hoots about our scotland they care about there scotland there dreams and ambitions

Its the two years of power that these people will have should the country vote yes that concerns me

not scotlands independence


I actually agree with you here.

What is being done, they will do anyway, independence or no independence. They already have that power.
Anything they are doing will have to be compatible with European law and human rights legislation.
If it isn't, it will fall on it's arse.
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.

Elections are due 18 months after the referendum, and should we vote YES, most of that time will be taken up by negotiations with Westminster, Brussels, NATO and the UN.
Personally I'd rather trust those negotiations to the current Scottish government, than the likes of Johann Lamont, Anas Sarwar, Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie. Would you trust any of them to negotiate the best deal for Scotland, when it's not what they want or believe in?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:40 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
sunset wrote:

Now take a wee look what Kenny is doing to the justice system

He is slowing trying to take more and more rights away from all of us

The big print giveth and the small print taketh

Kenny and co lawyers, bankers, ex coppers dont reli give two hoots about our scotland they care about there scotland there dreams and ambitions

Its the two years of power that these people will have should the country vote yes that concerns me

not scotlands independence


I actually agree with you here.

What is being done, they will do anyway, independence or no independence. They already have that power.
Anything they are doing will have to be compatible with European law and human rights legislation.
If it isn't, it will fall on it's arse.
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.

Elections are due 18 months after the referendum, and should we vote YES, most of that time will be taken up by negotiations with Westminster, Brussels, NATO and the UN.
Personally I'd rather trust those negotiations to the current Scottish government, than the likes of Johann Lamont, Anas Sarwar, Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie. Would you trust any of them to negotiate the best deal for Scotland, when it's not what they want or believe in?


Quote:
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.



Tell me you don't really believe this tripe do you? #-o


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Skull wrote:
gusmac wrote:
sunset wrote:

Now take a wee look what Kenny is doing to the justice system

He is slowing trying to take more and more rights away from all of us

The big print giveth and the small print taketh

Kenny and co lawyers, bankers, ex coppers dont reli give two hoots about our scotland they care about there scotland there dreams and ambitions

Its the two years of power that these people will have should the country vote yes that concerns me

not scotlands independence


I actually agree with you here.

What is being done, they will do anyway, independence or no independence. They already have that power.
Anything they are doing will have to be compatible with European law and human rights legislation.
If it isn't, it will fall on it's arse.
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.

Elections are due 18 months after the referendum, and should we vote YES, most of that time will be taken up by negotiations with Westminster, Brussels, NATO and the UN.
Personally I'd rather trust those negotiations to the current Scottish government, than the likes of Johann Lamont, Anas Sarwar, Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie. Would you trust any of them to negotiate the best deal for Scotland, when it's not what they want or believe in?


Quote:
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.



Tell me you don't really believe this tripe do you? #-o


Yes actually I do.
BTW, you and sunset make a great double act. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Gusmac writes:
Quote:
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.


I wrote:
Quote:
Tell me you don't really believe this tripe do you? #-o


Gusmac writes:
Quote:
Yes actually I do.
#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


The first objective of any government once in power, is to control the populous. And the only way they can achieve this is by protecting the system that put them there in the first place.
Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas Gusmac. And once in power, you can rest assured, Turkeys the likes of Salmond and MacAskill will not be handing power over to people like you. It is simply not in their interests.

Quite honestly Gusmac, your political argument for Independence and home rule is almost fanciful. #-o

It's actually scary how naive, you little tartan people are when it comes to how the political system works, in reality. #-o


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Skull wrote:
Gusmac writes:
Quote:
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.


I wrote:
Quote:
Tell me you don't really believe this tripe do you? #-o


Gusmac writes:
Quote:
Yes actually I do.
#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


The first objective of any government once in power, is to control the populous. And the only way they can achieve this is by protecting the system that put them there in the first place.
Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas Gusmac. And once in power, you can rest assured, Turkeys the likes of Salmond and MacAskill will not be handing power over to people like you. It is simply not in their interests.

Quite honestly Gusmac, your political argument for Independence and home rule is almost fanciful. #-o

It's actually scary how naive, you little tartan people are when it comes to how the political system works, in reality. #-o




Tell us what the solution is then.
None of your vague "accountability" bullshit.
The same accountability you've never had, don't have right now and never will have under the union.
Tell us why were better together (your words) Spell it out if you can.

You know, I've had enough of your shite Skull. Put up or shut up.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:39 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:
Gusmac writes:
Quote:
After independence, we can change anything like this we don't like.


I wrote:
Quote:
Tell me you don't really believe this tripe do you? #-o


Gusmac writes:
Quote:
Yes actually I do.
#-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


The first objective of any government once in power, is to control the populous. And the only way they can achieve this is by protecting the system that put them there in the first place.
Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas Gusmac. And once in power, you can rest assured, Turkeys the likes of Salmond and MacAskill will not be handing power over to people like you. It is simply not in their interests.

Quite honestly Gusmac, your political argument for Independence and home rule is almost fanciful. #-o

It's actually scary how naive, you little tartan people are when it comes to how the political system works, in reality. #-o




Tell us what the solution is then. None of your vague "accountability" bullshit. The same accountability you've never had, don't have right now and never will have under the union.
Tell us why were better together (your words) Spell it out if you can.

You know, I've had enough of your shite Skull. Put up or shut up.



It’s very simple Gusmac.

There are two types of accountability - direct and indirect.

Indirect accountability: the political party is wholly responsible for the decisions and actions taken on your behalf, but no single person is held directly accountable.

Direct accountability: if someone is found to be acting irresponsibly, negligent or even criminally, they are held directly accountable for the decisions they take, i.e. the pay the price out of their own pocket. They might lose their job, their pension and in extreme cases, their liberty.

What is needed is an independent arbiter with real teeth, made up from members of the public keeping a check on how these so-called public representatives conduct themselves?

Good enough, I can elaborate if you like?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Skull wrote:

Good enough, I can elaborate if you like?


No, nowhere near enough.

Elaborate please.

Especially about how you go about getting this and how continued UK membership makes it more likely.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:30 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Skull wrote:

Good enough, I can elaborate if you like?


No, nowhere near enough.

Elaborate please.

Especially about how you go about getting this and how continued UK membership makes it more likely.



Transparency of government is the way to make public officials responsible and accountable for the public interest. At the moment, the only thing they are serving is themselves and that of private interests.

As for achieving the above, it's a matter of public will. It matters not a jot who's running the show. It's always comes down to the same thing. :-|


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Skull i muted a while ago a kind of Scottish Council to oversee Politicians, political policy etc, yes scrutinising and making politicians more accountable, making sure policy is in our national interest, official observers who earn the right and are nominated to the Scottish Council, the idea evolves from the british honours system but Scottish style.

We have a great chance through debate and demand within an independent country, there is one stumbling block :roll: :roll:


We need the likes of YOU and Sunset to vote YES :wink:

Or do we :?:

Me and Gusmac are either side of centre but like many, We are all in this TOGETHER!!!

Then when we get independence the fun will begin, are you sure you don't want to be a part of the New Beginning :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:31 am 
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Private Reggie wrote:
Skull i muted a while ago a kind of Scottish Council to oversee Politicians, political policy etc, yes scrutinising and making politicians more accountable, making sure policy is in our national interest, official observers who earn the right and are nominated to the Scottish Council, the idea evolves from the british honours system but Scottish style.

We have a great chance through debate and demand within an independent country, there is one stumbling block :roll: :roll:


We need the likes of YOU and Sunset to vote YES :wink:

Or do we :?:

Me and Gusmac are either side of centre but like many, We are all in this TOGETHER!!!

Then when we get independence the fun will begin, are you sure you don't want to be a part of the New Beginning :D


Dougie, we are talking about opening up government up to public scrutiny. The technology already exists to make politicians and political parties in their present form, almost redundant. We, the people are the official observers. Government business is our business because their decisions directly affect us.
I don’t need a bunch of public school boys sucking up to private interest and then telling me, what is for my own good? If I have access to the information, I need, and I can view the arguments for and against. I am quite capable of making up my own mind. :-|

Oh and Dougie, there is no, new beginning just more of the same. :-|


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:46 am 
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Skull wrote:
Transparency of government is the way to make public officials responsible and accountable for the public interest. At the moment, the only thing they are serving is themselves and that of private interests.

Isn't that the nature of the beast though? Unless you ban all political donations, it's always going to be the case that those with money will buy influence, be it rich individuals like Griffen or Souter, big businesses or trade unions?
And if you did ban all such donations, how are political parties to be funded, without allegations of bribery etc?

Skull wrote:
As for achieving the above, it's a matter of public will. It matters not a jot who's running the show. It's always comes down to the same thing. :-|


Yes it is a matter of public will.

A newly independent Scotland will have expectations of it's politicians that a disenchanted and disillusioned British public don't and wont. Whether that will translate into the accountability you seek is another matter. I think probably not, since nothing would really satisfy you.
I'm sure of one thing, it won't ever happen under the union. That shower of shecht can't even get rid of the House of Lords.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:48 am 
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Private Reggie wrote:
Skull i muted a while ago a kind of Scottish Council to oversee Politicians, political policy etc, yes scrutinising and making politicians more accountable, making sure policy is in our national interest, official observers who earn the right and are nominated to the Scottish Council, the idea evolves from the british honours system but Scottish style.


That's not going to wash Dougie. The last thing anyone wants is a Scottish version of the House of Lords.

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