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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:46 am 
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toots wrote:
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Toots, a debate is a discussion in which reasons are advanced for or against some proposition or proposal. It’s not just about having a belief or an opinion and sticking with it regardless of how flawed your thinking may be. The trouble is Toots, you and your religious extremist friends have failed to grasp this most basic concept, and that’s where the problem lies for both of you. So you, if anybody toots, should understand exactly where I am coming from. Oh and Toots, your problem is, you think and talk nonsense believing that you have made a valid point. Oh and you also read and understand the argument very poorly to come away with this shi*e but I will indulge you further, in the name of reason.


You can't half chat some sh*te and come away having said very little at all :roll:

My religious extremist friends :? I think you must confused I don't have any religious extremist friends you fool

A debate is just a formal discussion and so far you have failed to persuade me to your side of the argument, you have not provided sufficient evidence to prove your point, what evidence have you provided that if you ban Islam the fundamentalist will go away. that senseless killing will be stopped or indeed that Islam won't be taught anyway in secret?

As regards to making a valid point it is you who believes that the point you made is valid, it's not I all I did was express an opinion. It's my opinion, of which I am entitled to have regardless of your opinion, that you are a crazy person driven to your beliefs through emotional ties. Also if I read and understood the argument very poorly then perhaps it was the way it was written As you will undoubtedly know it is important to keep things simple, because, although you may wish to sound clever you could come across as incomprehensible and that is another debating skill, ffs.

Skull wrote:
Oh and Toots, I used the quotes of Sir Winston Churchill and Marcus Tullius Cicero, to sum up, my position exactly, and that too is a debating method.

Now if that makes me a fascist then so was Winston Churchill and Marcus Tullius.


You should try expressing yourself more eloquently to sum up your position in your own words rather than using the words of others over and over again. I didn't call you fascist I think you're fool, but, that is only my opinion.

Here is something else that is my opinion, let the person that commits the crime face the punishment you can not hold the misguided beliefs of a crazy person against a whole host of other people just because the crazy person named their religion as the reason for their murdering act.


God woman, what are you wittering on about, and if you don’t mind me saying, written like a true extremists. A debate is a formal discussion (you got that much right) in which one advances reasons for what is proposed. Oh and Toots, I am not trying to persuade you of anything because like the true extremist that you are, you would hold onto your opinion, regardless of the evidence. However, and here’s the funny thing, you have never advanced a proposal for a reasoned argument of your own.

Oh and I never said that Islamic fundamentalists would go away or the senseless killing would be stopped or that it wouldn’t be taught in secret, it was you who said that. And if you want to see the opinion of a crazy person then just read over what you have written. #-o

Oh and Toots, how's this for a proposal and a reasoned argument? We are an Island nation. If we deported all the extremist nutters like you, then our problems would be solved because no one would be left to cause us Atheist, non-nutter types, a fu*king problem. And if we stuck you all on an Island of your own, you would be able to talk shi*e to your heart’s content while believing any fairy story you like and without being a pain in the ars* to the rest of us. You could even blow each other up or shoot each other until you run out of bullets or people, whichever comes first.

You really are a dozy cow of the highest order. So how's that for touch of eloquence. #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:54 am 
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Skull wrote:

Where do you get this sh*e. Whatever Churchill did it doesn't make his observations about Islam any less correct?

Oh and if your British born subject sees himself a Muslim first, then that's fine with me, so let his brothers take care of him in a Muslim country of his choice. I am sure they will welcome him and his extremist views with open arms. :-|


Churchill was the architect of the Dardanelles campaign during the first world war - he was generally regarded as an adventurer - this campaign led to the deaths of thousands.

He was similarly responsible for the formation of the 'Black and Tans' in Ireland which terrorised the country.

His policies during WW2 led to the starvation of millions in India - his policy of starvation led to Germany being blockaded during WW1 and thousands of civilian deaths - his bombing campaign during WW2 deliberately targeted civilians courtesy of bomber Harris.

Churchill famously stated "History will be kind to me for I intend to write it." - never had you down as a sap.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:24 am 
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Skull wrote:
God woman


What God would that be :?

Skull wrote:
Oh and I never said that Islamic fundamentalists would go away or the senseless killing would be stopped or that it wouldn’t be taught in secret, it was you who said that.


Quite right I did ask about these things, as your argument seems to be that if we send them on a boat to elsewhere the problem would be solved, this however does not seem to hold up if you check your history.

Btw it really is a pretty poor debate if you have to resort to personal insults, I'm no more an extreme fundamentalist than you. For the record I don't like people who preach hate of any kind and I would prefer that they were locked up so they couldn't do it, but, apparently that's not what appears to happen in this country because we have a freedom of speech. Personally I think that perhaps some of the things said by some people should be dealt with but I'm not sure where one would draw line.

So anyway lets suppose we send all these extreme fundamentalists away on a boat to wherever, how is that going to stop them influencing people here? It's not like they can't communicate with each other is it? So my question to you is how does your solution solve the problem when the puppeteer probably isn't even resident in the UK?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:24 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:

Where do you get this sh*e. Whatever Churchill did it doesn't make his observations about Islam any less correct?

Oh and if your British born subject sees himself a Muslim first, then that's fine with me, so let his brothers take care of him in a Muslim country of his choice. I am sure they will welcome him and his extremist views with open arms. :-|


Churchill was the architect of the Dardanelles campaign during the first world war - he was generally regarded as an adventurer - this campaign led to the deaths of thousands.

He was similarly responsible for the formation of the 'Black and Tans' in Ireland which terrorised the country.

His policies during WW2 led to the starvation of millions in India - his policy of starvation led to Germany being blockaded during WW1 and thousands of civilian deaths - his bombing campaign during WW2 deliberately targeted civilians courtesy of bomber Harris.

Churchill famously stated "History will be kind to me for I intend to write it." - never had you down as a sap.


Whatever Churchill did or didn't do it detracts nothing from the quote I used to help sum up my position. Churchill in this instance was spot on.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:02 pm 
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toots wrote:
Skull wrote:
God woman


What God would that be :?

Skull wrote:
Oh and I never said that Islamic fundamentalists would go away or the senseless killing would be stopped or that it wouldn’t be taught in secret, it was you who said that.


Quite right I did ask about these things, as your argument seems to be that if we send them on a boat to elsewhere the problem would be solved, this however does not seem to hold up if you check your history.

Btw it really is a pretty poor debate if you have to resort to personal insults, I'm no more an extreme fundamentalist than you. For the record I don't like people who preach hate of any kind and I would prefer that they were locked up so they couldn't do it, but, apparently that's not what appears to happen in this country because we have a freedom of speech. Personally I think that perhaps some of the things said by some people should be dealt with but I'm not sure where one would draw line.

So anyway lets suppose we send all these extreme fundamentalists away on a boat to wherever, how is that going to stop them influencing people here? It's not like they can't communicate with each other is it? So my question to you is how does your solution solve the problem when the puppeteer probably isn't even resident in the UK?


Before we get into this, watch this documentary from a few years back. And make your mind up first, about exactly what it is we are dealing with. Oh and Toots, if you don't watch the video, you have little room to comment on anything proposed by me.

There are 10 parts to this vid, which makes it about an hour out of your life. Oh and it falls short with regards American and British foreign policy, but there are Muslims making a very clear point about Islamic Jihad and the west.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLJJEDD ... re=mh_lolz

Oh and my solution is a proposal backed by a reasoned argument that strategically, we live on an Island with a relatively small population. And we need some way to separate the moderate Muslims from the radical and one way, is to have everyone swearing allegiance to the flag and deporting those with extremist views if they don't.

If you want to live in the UK, then your country must come first. And if you cannot embrace a western way of life, you should not be here, it's that simple. Now I don't think this would be a problem for any moderate peace-loving Muslim.

Oh and Toots, your proposal, if that's what you want to call it, is just to let the law do it's job, but unfortunately this only happens, after the bodies start to pile up. :-|

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Here's one for the true believer: The Hitch is in different league. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LA47fuWc8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1aIuoCq4w

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Skull wrote:
toots wrote:
Skull wrote:
God woman


What God would that be :?

Skull wrote:
Oh and I never said that Islamic fundamentalists would go away or the senseless killing would be stopped or that it wouldn’t be taught in secret, it was you who said that.


Quite right I did ask about these things, as your argument seems to be that if we send them on a boat to elsewhere the problem would be solved, this however does not seem to hold up if you check your history.

Btw it really is a pretty poor debate if you have to resort to personal insults, I'm no more an extreme fundamentalist than you. For the record I don't like people who preach hate of any kind and I would prefer that they were locked up so they couldn't do it, but, apparently that's not what appears to happen in this country because we have a freedom of speech. Personally I think that perhaps some of the things said by some people should be dealt with but I'm not sure where one would draw line.

So anyway lets suppose we send all these extreme fundamentalists away on a boat to wherever, how is that going to stop them influencing people here? It's not like they can't communicate with each other is it? So my question to you is how does your solution solve the problem when the puppeteer probably isn't even resident in the UK?


Before we get into this, watch this documentary from a few years back. And make your mind up first, about exactly what it is we are dealing with. Oh and Toots, if you don't watch the video, you have little room to comment on anything proposed by me.

There are 10 parts to this vid, which makes it about an hour out of your life. Oh and it falls short with regards American and British foreign policy, but there are Muslims making a very clear point about Islamic Jihad and the west.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMLJJEDD ... re=mh_lolz

Oh and my solution is a proposal backed by a reasoned argument that strategically, we live on an Island with a relatively small population. And we need some way to separate the moderate Muslims from the radical and one way, is to have everyone swearing allegiance to the flag and deporting those with extremist views if they don't.

If you want to live in the UK, then your country must come first. And if you cannot embrace a western way of life, you should not be here, it's that simple. Now I don't think this would be a problem for any moderate peace-loving Muslim.

Oh and Toots, your proposal, if that's what you want to call it, is just to let the law do it's job, but unfortunately this only happens, after the bodies start to pile up. :-|

Skull just fir the record all oaths of allegiance in this country are not to the BUTCHERS apron BUT TO AN INBRED GERMAN PARASITICAL **** PARASITE IE ELIZABETH VON WINDSOR :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ONE TWISTED EVIL DESPICABLE W--H--O--R--E :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:00 pm 
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Trots is correct, if a little OTT. Oaths in this country are to the crown, not the Union flag.

As I'm a republican and an opponent of the union, I couldn't and wouldn't swear an oath of allegiance to either.
And I'm hardly alone, many others would have problems with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:34 pm 
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So what are you proposing, a new kind of oath to show allegiance to your country or do we just go straight to deportation, for anyone found to have extremist views? It's either that or you accept radical Islam and its atrocities, is here to stay, with this country well on its way to become an Islamic State. Which do you prefer?

Make your case? :-|

Oh and if you watched the video, Islamic Jihad is a War against the west and everything our way of life stands for. :-| They are never going to give this up. Theirs is a final solution just like the Nazis. :-|

I think the evidence for the above statement is overwhelming.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Your the one making proposals, not me. I'm pointing out a flaw in your proposal.

TBH I dont think anyone who's prepared to kill for their cause will worry much about breaking an oath to a flag, country or monarch they despise. They will make the oath and ignore it.

You also haven't addressed the valid question of how you deport someone who is a British subject?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:31 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Your the one making proposals, not me. I'm pointing out a flaw in your proposal.

TBH I dont think anyone who's prepared to kill for their cause will worry much about breaking an oath to a flag, country or monarch they despise. They will make the oath and ignore it.

You also haven't addressed the valid question of how you deport someone who is a British subject?


I answered the above question in another post.

Radical Islamic types, do not see themselves as citizens of this country. Their only allegiance is to their faith, their prophet and God. And because of this, if they are found to have extremist views, or they refuse to swear an oath to this country, they are deported to an Islamic Country of their choosing?

Oh and Gusmac, you are entirely correct to shoot down my views, if you believe them to be unacceptable. However, in the interest of advancing the debate it is necessary to make a counter proposal and to give your reasoning behind it. If you don't it just means it's left to one person to make all the running when you don't really have an argument of your own. :-|

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:10 pm 
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What if they refuse to choose one?
What if their chosen country refuses to accept them?

It's not that I dont have an opinion Skull. I've given that already, as have others.
In this case I think your proposal is simplistic and will prove unworkable.

I'll comment on the video when I have time to watch it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:07 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
What if they refuse to choose one?
What if their chosen country refuses to accept them?

It's not that I dont have an opinion Skull. I've given that already, as have others.
In this case I think your proposal is simplistic and will prove unworkable.

I'll comment on the video when I have time to watch it.


Gusmac, there are parts of Afghanistan, India and Pakistan, which are almost completely lawless. No one knows who the feck is going in and out over their borders. And that's before we even start talking about North Africa and other places in the middle east. Oh and I think you will find that turning their Islamic "brothers" away, is not what being a good Muslim is all about. It would go against their beliefs.

Can you imagine the uproar by the Islamic brotherhood, if they tried to pull a stunt like that? Quite honestly, I don't think they would risk it. :-| My suggestion is about using their extremist Islamic beliefs against them. Let's send them back to where they belong.

Oh and Gus, how do you think these extremists get into these places to become trained terrorists in the first place? And trust me on this, if they decided to stay in Afghanistan or Pakistan, no one would notice. The mistake is letting them back into this country.

Okay, you think my proposal is simplistic and unworkable. I've answered it by giving you the reasons why it could work. And I don't think deportation is a problem as long as our government is prepared to opt out of HR, charter, on this issue. And they can do it, if extremism is considered to be a serious threat to state security. Basically, Cameron is playing politics with peoples lives when this situation needs drastic measures to get it under some sort of control. These fundamentalists look at this as a War to bring about an Islamic state and Cameron has to wake-up to the fact, or the bodies will continue to pile up at an alarming rate.

What next? :-|

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Oh and mark my words, if drastic measures are not taken to separate the good moderate Muslims from the extremist jihadist, and another soldier is hacked to death in a similar fashion. This country is going to erupt and whether you are a good or bad Muslim, it simply won't matter.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-eveni ... -1-2954768


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/an ... 45356.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Skull wrote:

Gusmac, there are parts of Afghanistan, India and Pakistan, which are almost completely lawless. No one knows who the feck is going in and out over their borders. And that's before we even start talking about Syria, Lebanon and other places in the middle east. Oh and I think you will find that turning their Islamic "brothers" away, is not what being a good Muslim is all about. It would go against their beliefs.

Can you imagine the uproar by the Islamic brotherhood, if they tried to pull a stunt like that? Quite honestly, I don't think they would risk it. :-| My suggestion is about using their extremist Islamic beliefs against them. Let's send them back to where they belong.

Oh and Gus, how do you think these extremists get into these place to become trained terrorists in the first place? And trust me on this, if they decided to stay in Afghanistan or Pakistan, no one would notice. The mistake is letting them back into this country.

Okay, you think my proposal is simplistic and unworkable. I've answered it by giving you the reasons why it could work. And I don't think deportation is a problem as long as our government is prepared to opt out of HR, charter, on this issue. And they can do it, if extremism is considered to be a serious threat to state security. Basically, Cameron is playing politics with peoples lives when this situation needs drastic measures to get it under some sort of control. These fundamentalists look at this as a War to bring about an Islamic state and Cameron has to wake-up to the fact, or the bodies will continue to pile up at an alarming rate.

What next? :-|


You seem to have gone from deporting them to the country of their choosing to dumping them wherever you can get away with it :lol:

Now I don't doubt that it could be done, provided you are prepared act in a draconian fashion. I think that would set a dangerous precedent.
Let's face it, there are more people than just Islamic hate preachers who represent a danger to the British state.
I want to dismantle the British state, so I'd be on the list.
Some of your views could be seen as subversive. We might end up on the same rendition flight :shock:

Even if you could round up every one of these people and dump them off in the wilds of Pakistan or Afghanistan, unless you unplug the UK from the internet, ban all travel in or out of the country, cut off all foreign phone connections and block all satellite communications, these people and their message of hate will still get through.
Throwing them out and just hauling up the drawbridge won't work.

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