Taxi Driver Online

I'm currently going through divorce/separation and have worked with the mrs for years doing private hire. We're both shareholders in the operating company. The company bids for local authority school contracts and we both undertake the contracts on a self-employed basis. The company as such does not hold its own p/h licence but both licences were in my name trading as "the company ltd". One has now been transferred to her name and I insisted on keeping the other one.

This has been perfectly acceptable for years and the county council has never queried this before. We'd provided probably the most reliable service they've had in the area with no lost mileage and no lateness on our behalf. No breakdowns, a clean record.

However, woman scorned and all that, she phoned the council after I refused to sign both p/h licences over to her alleging that I was operating outside my area. I've moved just across the district council boundary but continue to use my old address as the operating centre. Nothing illegal there. Drivers don't have to live at their operating centre. I told the county council of this arrangement and that the company would continue to undertake the contract with mrs roythebus doing the run as she has done for a few years. They now view this as sub-contracting which is not allowed under their contract T&Cs. They say she has to be employed by the company!

I told the council that the majority of cab drivers in the country are self-employed but in their wisdom chose to differ. What planet do these people live on? I've spoken to my licencing officer about this who does not really want to get involved in contractual matters but agreed with me that there are very few companies that actually employ drivers. The only one I can think of on here is granddad. Most firms seem to use self-employed drivers with those drivers sometimes hiring licenced cars from the company; some companies are owned by the drivers as a co-operative with drivers licencing and insuring their own cars; some owner drivers hire a radio from the company and take work as it comes in. None of this in my view counts as sub-contracting. This is all the custom and practice in the taxi and private hire industry. Whatever way you look at it, you call ABC Cabs and you get a car from ABC Cabs. Is anyone really bothered about the driver's employment status?

We only have to look at some of the big firms, Addison Lee springs to mind with all drivers self-employed; do THEY sub-contract to their drivers? Other local firms near me are Arrow Taxis in Ashford, Streamline in Maidstone, Folkestone Taxis. Surely they don't employ all their drivers? Yet they all undertake school contracts on behalf of the county and in the strict sense of the law sub-contract to their drivers. Even the small 3 car operators in my area have individually licenced drivers and cars operating under their trading name. I really don't see the problem with the county council.

Councils being asses seems to be the in thing

Imo you are spot on unless a company employs their drivers rather than rents them a radio or similar they are in essence sub contracting

What does it say in your terms and conditions of your contract? I'm assuming it says no sub-contracting? Whose vehicle is she using, who owns the vehicle? Who name is the insurance in?
I'm sure there are ways round it, maybe employ her just a few hours while she does the run, but probably best to give it up, and get rid of her, after all she caused the problem.

1. Close your current company

2. Start a new one (ltd if you must)

3. Only have hack plates (you can live anywhere)

4. Be "ABC cabs" a circuit with owner drivers on tap if needs be

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

But thats the norm on circuits, rent out radios, win contracts, pass to the OD's. (and cream 20% off the top)


If all contracts had to be done by the contract HOLDER there would be a massive shortage in transport availability

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

a job passed to another FIRM is subbed out

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

I'd tend to agree with wannabee's last comment, if the contracts had to be done by the contract holder, there would be a massive shortage!

The fact that my company has been doing the same sort of contracts for years with no problems makes me wonder why the chap at the county council doesn't know more about how taxi and p/h companies actually operate. Mind you, he is a bus man, ex First Group and managed to get First Bristol on a Public Inquiry.

On second thoughts I'll set myself up as a community transport operator so I won't need any licences or h&r insurance!

you could always hand all the contracts back to county, see how she likes that

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

Personally if having explained the situation to the council and they're still insisting that it is subcontracting I would return the one they consider to be subcontracted, ie your wife's run and explain to them that they'll have to renegotiate it with her.

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

They couldnt here, she wouldnt be on the framework and its just open for bids, fail to get on it and its another 3 years wait

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

That's my point because she started the ball rolling, lessons all round as far as I'm concerned

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Basically this highlights the lack of cohesion between taxi licensing (usually DISTRICT councils) who generally/almost understand PH/HC legislation and COUNTY councils (sometimes City councils) organising school runs, these know very little.....or dont want to.

County council staff are usually ex-graduates with BSc (hons) so you just KNOW they arent of this world

As a PH I got told I can sub a job to any contractor on the approved list, I didnt dare mention cross border bookings

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most

This info just received from the LPHCA Newsletter. The law was enacted on the last day of parliament along with a whole raft of other legislation. the section highlighted in red throws the county council's contract even further into the realms of being not fit for purpose.


Private hire vehicles: sub-contracting

In the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, after section 55 insert -

55A Sub-contracting by operators

(1) A person licensed under section 55 who has in a controlled district accepted a booking for a private hire vehicle may arrange for another person to provide a vehicle to carry out the booking if -
(a) the other person is licensed under section 55 in respect of the same controlled district and the sub-contracted booking is accepted in that district;
(b) the other person is licensed under section 55 in respect of another controlled district and the sub-contracted booking is accepted in that district;
(c) the other person is a London PHV operator and the sub-contracted booking is accepted at an operating centre in London; or
(d) the other person accepts the sub-contracted booking in Scotland.

(2) It is immaterial for the purposes of subsection (1) whether or not sub-contracting is permitted by the contract between the person licensed under section 55 who accepted the booking and the person who made the booking.

(3) Where a person licensed under section 55 in respect of a controlled district is also licensed under that section in respect of another controlled district, subsection (1) (so far as relating to paragraph (b) of that subsection) and section 55B (1) and (2) apply as if each licence were held by a separate person.

(4) Where a person licensed under section 55 in respect of a controlled district is also a London PHV operator, subsection (1) (so far as relating to paragraph (c) of that subsection) and section 55B (1) and (2) apply as if the person holding the licence under section 55 and the London PHV operator were separate persons.

(5) Where a person licensed under section 55 in respect of a controlled district also makes provision in the course of a business for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire car or taxi in Scotland, subsection (1) (so far as relating to paragraph (d) of that subsection) and section 55B (1) and (2) apply as if the person holding the licence under section 55 and the person making the provision in Scotland were separate persons. In this subsection, “private hire car” and “taxi” have the same meaning as in sections 10 to 22 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982.

(6) In this section, “London PHV operator” and “operating centre” have the same meaning as in the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998.

55B Sub-contracting by operators: criminal liability

(1) In this section—
“the first operator” means a person licensed under section 55 who has in a controlled district accepted a booking for a private hire vehicle and then made arrangements for another person to provide a vehicle to carry out the booking in accordance with section 55A (1);
“the second operator” means the person with whom the first operator made the arrangements (and, accordingly, the person who accepted the sub-contracted booking).

(2) The first operator is not to be treated for the purposes of section 46(1)(e) as operating a private hire vehicle by virtue of having invited or accepted the booking.

(3) The first operator is guilty of an offence if—
(a) the second operator is a person mentioned in section 55A (1)(a) or (b),
(b) the second operator contravenes section 46(1)(e) in respect of the sub-contracted booking, and
(c) the first operator knew that the second operator would contravene section 46(1)(e) in respect of the booking.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

As im now hackney plated I can sub a school run to any HC/PH operator so long as they are on the county list


but surely before i had a hack plate i could have, the plate is the key? but IM the contract holder, i might not have a car!

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Of all the things ive lost, i miss my mind the most