Taxi Driver Online

You are misreading me.

The customers should not be placated. They are currently and have been unnecessarily placated by the majority of taxi firms in the country due to ignorance of basic business practices.

What's the current status of the industry?

A shortage of drivers and customers not getting the service they require generally speaking.

Do you use airlines when you go abroad? Do you stay in hotels when you go on holiday?

Those industries use surge pricing. Try booking a hotel in the school holidays in July/August. Check the train ticket fare prices to London Paddington on a weekday at business commuter peak times between 7am and 9am from any major town or city close by.

You will pay a premium. Or you can decide to travel to London off peak at 1pm instead and save money. But understand those tickets will generally get sold and the train firms will make their money regardless.

It's called taking advantage of supply and demand.

When families see the prices for booking a holiday in the summer they bemoan the fact that the prices are expensive but the majority still book their holiday regardless don't they?

It's because they don't have a choice if they want a holiday during the summer. They either pay the price or they go on holiday off peak during the winter etc. Sure, they might shop around for the cheapest flight and hotel but understand almost ALL those airlines and hotels will use surge pricing with the exception of perhaps a few small mom and pop hotel business owners etc.

The airlines and hotels know that customers will pay their higher prices obviously which is why they increase their prices. Basic supply and demand. The ones that can will pay and the rest will go without.

But be under no doubt the hotels and airlines will sell their services regardless. It's only a question of who are the ones that can pay against those who cannot or refuse to pay the prices.

And the hotels and airlines will get booked again the following year assuming they provide a good service and have professional staff etc.

And so will the train service providers.

And so do Uber every week year in year out. Whilst the other taxi firms go around like idiots picking up pennies running late for customers and turning work away because they don't have enough drivers (prices too low).

Obviously, there will be some customers who will try to use the small taxi firms as opposed to Uber as a matter of principle because they will personally believe that Uber "rip off" their customers or whatever.

But Uber don't rip-off their customers at all. If they did they would have no customers and as a consequence they would also have no drivers.

Uber's app clearly shows you the price of the service you require. it's not a hidden surprise.

The customer has the choice to pay it or not. Book the service and get a cab in 20 minutes or wait 2 hours and save £20 or whatever.

The taxi companies are losing money unnecessarily because they have poor business models.

Or more precisely the drivers are losing money because the owners refuse to change their pricing structures assuming they don't take a percentage of a drivers earnings and charge a fixed weekly amount regardless of earnings.

They can charge extra and still be in business but due to their ignorance and lack of respect for the drivers they do not.

A lot of them don't because if they did surge pricing they wouldn't get any increased profit as a result of how they get income from the self-employed drivers.

They see it as "surge pricing will infuriate our customers and we don't benefit financially from it so there is no incentive or rational reason for doing it".

And now they are paying the price for that decision because they are down on driver numbers significantly and wondering what the hell went wrong with some even blaming Covid-19.

Covid-19 didn't ruin their businesses.

It only fast-tracked their demise. The writing was on the wall. Covid-19 only made it happen quicker.

Drivers would have been leaving in their droves over the coming years regardless. It just would have been gradual as opposed to all suddenly at once.

The good news Is I personally think many new taxi firms will arise in the coming years and the old ones (some of them) will get taken over by people who will run them better.

Some might go under. There will be winners and losers.

Technology is getting cheaper. It probably won't be an astronomical amount to pay a team of people to develop your own company app similar to what Uber has now.

Many will do that. There are also many software companies now selling packages for reasonable prices.

It will take time but it will happen because it has to happen.

Yes. Many customers will moan because the days of a £3 fare from A to B will be over and that £10 journey from the pub to home on a Saturday night at 10pm peak time will be gone.

But that's just tough. If they don't like it they can walk home and some will.

But the taxi drivers will have enough work and will be making more money than they do today and have done over the previous years.

The customers will accept it just like they accept paying higher prices for their holidays in the summer etc.

Will they moan about it? Yes. Will it cause some of them to use taxis less? perhaps.

But over time they will get accustomed to it and the market will reach an equilibrium where both the driver and the customer both get a more fair price that reflects the service being provided/received.

Currently, the market is and has been for a long time more tilted in the favour of the customer who has gotten a reasonably good service for a very cheap price at the expense of the self-employed drivers.

That's why they left the industry both out of necessity and of choice.

Hope this helps you understand more clearly.

I note you said generally, but other than from a few areas that have loud mouth operators I'm not sure it's widespread at all.

The only people moaning about a lack of drivers are operators, not punters or existing drivers.

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IDFIMH

There are plenty of articles written showing clear evidence that at times Uber does rip people off.

Pi**ed up people find it easier to press one button ignoring the fare.

Now they might be at fault for not noticing whilst pi**ed, but the price if crazy can and should be viewed by those of us who pretend to be 'fit and proper' as a ripoff.

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IDFIMH

That does not reflect what i am seeing.

The NPHTA article in the latest issue of PHTM states that there are "severe driver shortages" also with closures of firms around the country.

Locally near where I live in Plymouth there has been many local news items on the amount of drivers that have left the trade with stories of people struggling to get cabs.

I have spoken to people myself personally of them waiting a long time for a taxi and other cases of not being able to get any at all.

I personally have been in a situation of needing a cab but unable to get one so reluctantly got the bus due to been informed by a major firm informing me they are too busy to send out a cab.

There is a lot of information and data out there confirming the decline in numbers by the lack of renewals of many licensed drivers. The data from many councils shows the numbers have declined significantly.

Look at the stories of all those black cabs all parked up in storage due to drivers handing them back in London, I think.

The industry is struggling more than you think it is I reckon.

A rip-off is over charging someone.

Uber's app informs the customer of the price before they accept the fare.

Unless that fare price changes from what they quoted the customer they are not overcharging them.

Also, if I am not mistaken isn't the price an estimate?

I have only used Uber once in my life a few years ago so can't remember exactly but I think the price I was quoted was an estimate.

Assuming that is correct it does give them a bit of flexibility with regards to unforeseen circumstances and traffic etc.

But depends how you define rip-off and overcharging.

And I doubt the fact that a customer agrees a price would be sufficient to refute a charge of price-gouging, say.

And, more to the point, perhaps, why are taxi fares regulated? In that scenario, for example, I doubt you could argue that taxi fares shouldn't be regulated on the basis that the customer agrees the fare.

Of course, Uber aren't public hire, but to the extent that public hire is a comparable scenario then I don't think your argument is the end of the matter.

(And, in the context of surge pricing, I don't really get your point about the Uber app fare being an estimate. But in any case I think they've moved to fixed pricing these days, unless the final route deviates by a certain distance, or whatever.)

The punters are moaning about it here.

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Grandad,

Looking at the definition of "rip-off" online the Cambridge Dictionary states that it is "an act of cheating someone by charging too much or not giving anything of value for money spent" and "something that is not worth what you pay for it".

The word "cheat" means "to behave in a dishonest way". Uber are not behaving in a dishonest way by letting their customers know what the price is beforehand. They are transparant in their pricing.

The "not giving anything of value for money spent" meaning can be a little subjective. You could pay £3 for a taxi fare and claim it is a rip-off.

In that respect I will agree with you that how to define a "rip-off" is really down to a matter of opinion. It is nothing scientific that you can explain specifically.

There is an argument that Uber does price gouge. But again this is down to supply and demand.

If they had enough drivers on the road the prices would not increase significantly. It's required to meet demand.

If enough drivers get on the road the price decreases and an equilibrium is met.


In relation to regulation, my stance is there should be no regulation.

It's none of the councils' business what businesses/taxi drivers should charge the public.

That process is a negotiation between the customer and the driver/business.

It has nothing to do with the council. Their interference only makes things worse.

The fact that the council are implementing more and more regulation is making the industry even worse.

There is an argument that they have contributed more to drivers leaving the industry than the taxi firm owners have.

I can elaborate on this if you require.

Let Chaos Rule

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

But who is the industry?

If it's operators, then I don't share that view.

If it's drivers, then I'm not sure them having more work than they can cover can be viewed as them struggling.

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IDFIMH

A pi**ed up young lady goes to the bar and the barman charges her £100 for a G&T, is in my view an overcharge/rip-off.

The same applies to her getting into a Uber or any other surge-priced vehicle.

The fact that Uber might say on their app that the price is much much higher means diddly squat when it comes down to contract law.

For Uber to justify that price, when dealing with a drunk vulnerable person, they would have to show a court both parties entered into a binding contract. No County Court Judge will ever verify a contract when one of the parties is drunk as a skunk.

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IDFIMH

I thought you were a fan of surge pricing ? Now you are saying it may dodgy legally

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lack of modern legislation is the iceberg sinking the titanic of the transport sector

I'm a massive fan of it, but that doesn't mean it can be legally justified all the time.

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IDFIMH

But in the main the NPHTA represents fleet owners and despatch offices, who tend to *always* be short of drivers. The more drivers they have on their books, the more money they make, so no more a surprise that they're constantly on the look out for more drivers than an idle driver on the streets is on the lookout for more customers.

Of course, there's no doubt the fleets and offices have lost a lot of drivers, but just because they want numbers back up to pre-Covid levels doesn't necessarily mean the market will support that. If demand has contracted then at equilibrium levels driver numbers will be down as well, and that will affect fleet and office income, but unfortunately that's the result of the Covid-induced market shock.


Not that I'm denying that the market realignment hasn't resulted in an undersupply in some areas, and in particular for a few hours late at weekends, but I suspect it's often not much worse than pre-Covid, and will be exaggerated to a degree for PR and recruitment purposes etc.

At the other extreme, in the mid-sized town environment where I work, last night I couldn't even get on the main rank in the early evening, so went out to our station. Waited almost three hours with no run (in fact I was pole for well ever two hours), and no car left the rank with a fare while I was there (the front car when I arrived left the rank empty after an hour or so). So I gave up after three hours, and while I could have gone back to town and joined the rank there, I would have been out maybe four hours before even getting a fare, so instead went for some shopping and then home.

So I don't disbelieve what you're saying, but to portray that as applying throughout the land simply isn't true.


Which tells us what, precisely? Yes, driver numbers are significantly down here, but so is demand. So as a driver I don't see any particular issue with fewer drivers, and it's even a bit easier to get on the ranks here

But what data do you mean? One set of numbers oft-quoted in the press, both locally and nationally, is from the LPHCA (which represents minicab circuits in London, mainly), which claims the industry has lost 160,000 drivers from 300,000 over the past couple of years. But where's the hard data to support that?

Certainly haven't seen any myself, and I pay a bit more attention to these things than most. My best guess is that the LPHCA took an outlier firm (or two), and extrapolated that to the entire trade, and came up with a figure that is essentially nonsense, and is just aimed at policy makers in the hope that badges will be issued willy-nilly for the sole benefit of the ciruits, but without regard to drivers and the real state of the market.

But the floor's yours - where's the hard data showing a significant supply/demand mismatch throughout the country?


That's partly due to the ULEZ rules making the older diesels redundant. Of course, with the demand side of the market disappearing for months on end, supply was bound to contract significantly, and that was simply compounded by all the clean air stuff arriving at the same time.

Not sure it would be chaos.

But I'm sure the politicians will tell you that.